A Bird's eye view to a Bull's eye
- Thread starter tnsn2345
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Dear Jagan,
What do you need to learn, a good teacher / mentor and importantly environment.
Just think of standing in a crowded place in your city reading a book, and then reading a book in a public garden and then in a library and then reading a book in a reading room boarding school at a school in Shimla, Dehradun, Mahableshwar.
In tranquility you not only learn by grasp the subject and you are always right.
Starting a trading career (full time / part time) with day trading, is like reading a book in a crowded place. There is lot of noise, the anxiety of losses, esctasy of profits, the emotions, happiness, everything that you should not have for a good learning, it is all there.
When you do not day-trade, and start with larger TFs, you get more time to think, react, learn, note things, register in mind and in a book too. Also you develop a good observational skills if you just observe intra-day charts (though you should not day trade), develop - patience - the most important characteristic of a trader. You can control the urge to jump in a trade immediately. You gain control of holding on to a profitable position and not exit in a jerk.
Hope this helps...I know probably there could be somethings I may not be able to explain in words, what I can do by talking, gestures and body language, but that is a constraint we will have to live with. I am constantly being bothered now how I may be effectively be able to glide through the more concerned topics to follow. But I appreciate and welcome questionig and clarification seeking, as I said these are my belief and practise, I may also learn from a healthly discussion by participation of readers.
Regards,
What do you need to learn, a good teacher / mentor and importantly environment.
Just think of standing in a crowded place in your city reading a book, and then reading a book in a public garden and then in a library and then reading a book in a reading room boarding school at a school in Shimla, Dehradun, Mahableshwar.
In tranquility you not only learn by grasp the subject and you are always right.
Starting a trading career (full time / part time) with day trading, is like reading a book in a crowded place. There is lot of noise, the anxiety of losses, esctasy of profits, the emotions, happiness, everything that you should not have for a good learning, it is all there.
When you do not day-trade, and start with larger TFs, you get more time to think, react, learn, note things, register in mind and in a book too. Also you develop a good observational skills if you just observe intra-day charts (though you should not day trade), develop - patience - the most important characteristic of a trader. You can control the urge to jump in a trade immediately. You gain control of holding on to a profitable position and not exit in a jerk.
Hope this helps...I know probably there could be somethings I may not be able to explain in words, what I can do by talking, gestures and body language, but that is a constraint we will have to live with. I am constantly being bothered now how I may be effectively be able to glide through the more concerned topics to follow. But I appreciate and welcome questionig and clarification seeking, as I said these are my belief and practise, I may also learn from a healthly discussion by participation of readers.
Regards,
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QUOTE=jagankris;524978]Dear Tnsn,
Please explain the essence of the words "Day Trading - Prohibits Learning".
1.Why day trading prohibits learning ?
2.Learning - how things works ?
Can you give us an example for point 2.
TIA.[/QUOTE
hi Jagan
Tnsn has already explained the above point.. just my two cents here..
I believe there are only two ways of making money in the mkts..
one is where u have a very high percentage of ur trades as winners..while datytrading , since u are trading a very small TF, u have to keep that win percentage very high since trading smaller Tfs, u do multiple trades and subsequently pay a high cost..
the other way to make money is to 'let ur profits run', add to ur winning trades... "daytrading" by its very nature is not suitable fr this kind of trading..as generally a daytrader would be out of his position before the close even though the trade may be in good profit.. u have to give some room to ur winners to be consistently profitable.. and if u are 'daytrading', u cannot afford that luxary very often..
regards
QUOTE=jagankris;524978]Dear Tnsn,
Please explain the essence of the words "Day Trading - Prohibits Learning".
1.Why day trading prohibits learning ?
2.Learning - how things works ?
Can you give us an example for point 2.
TIA.[/QUOTE
hi Jagan
Tnsn has already explained the above point.. just my two cents here..
I believe there are only two ways of making money in the mkts..
one is where u have a very high percentage of ur trades as winners..while datytrading , since u are trading a very small TF, u have to keep that win percentage very high since trading smaller Tfs, u do multiple trades and subsequently pay a high cost..
the other way to make money is to 'let ur profits run', add to ur winning trades... "daytrading" by its very nature is not suitable fr this kind of trading..as generally a daytrader would be out of his position before the close even though the trade may be in good profit.. u have to give some room to ur winners to be consistently profitable.. and if u are 'daytrading', u cannot afford that luxary very often..
regards
Ok, now as we go further in this thread, just a small recap of the above two trades, one taken yesterday and one today. For the benefit of non-options traders, may I ask some options trader reader to state the payoff (risk, reward and the reason why the above trades where taken, which of the two trades were correct 1) From the beginning, 2) In the interim and 3) in the end. There is some strong, stong message I want to give (and this is for all traders - non-option traders too). This is one trade secret or something which will give a new dimention to your thinking for any TF trading, especially for the starters and non-consistently successful or experienced but struggling traders.
So, please some one dissect the above trade and then I will give you something that will change the way you trade.
Regards,
So, please some one dissect the above trade and then I will give you something that will change the way you trade.
Regards,
Since I do not trade stock intra day or for short TF, I could not give you trades for stock hence had to given examples on Options, to check participation and preparedness of readers would want someone to comment on my previous post on the trades shown.
Somethings which I am yet to disclose will not only be new (and feel good) but also practical, ready to be implemented with just little homework. Can be used with your existing trading method, system. And all for free. Ok, so need participation.
Regards,
Somethings which I am yet to disclose will not only be new (and feel good) but also practical, ready to be implemented with just little homework. Can be used with your existing trading method, system. And all for free. Ok, so need participation.
Regards,
First thoughts on this one (Dont have access to Options oracle, just using simple math for now)
Risk - around 30 pts till UL is below 5690 or so. Beyond 5690, risk would exponentially shoot up. That is in theory - you should be able to close out the position much before that. So in essence for me, Risk is 30 points.
Reward - around 70 points when the UL is below 5500.
Reason for taking the trade - Hitting a strong resistance of around 5540 on daily charts after a sustained up move (?)
Given the neutral to bearish view, this trade looked correct from the beginning. In the interim during the spike up today, this trade was still under control - we would have been loosing less than 25 points or so. Ideally today EOD, this position would have been closed out, since there is nothing remaining to milk out.
E.
Risk - around 30 pts till UL is below 5690 or so. Beyond 5690, risk would exponentially shoot up. That is in theory - you should be able to close out the position much before that. So in essence for me, Risk is 30 points.
Reward - around 70 points when the UL is below 5500.
Reason for taking the trade - Hitting a strong resistance of around 5540 on daily charts after a sustained up move (?)
Given the neutral to bearish view, this trade looked correct from the beginning. In the interim during the spike up today, this trade was still under control - we would have been loosing less than 25 points or so. Ideally today EOD, this position would have been closed out, since there is nothing remaining to milk out.
E.
Bingo, great going Enygma, I knew it was coming and that too from you, other still could have given it a try.
Ok now how about the second trade.
Regards,
Dear Friends,
How does the below sound:
- How to convert your losers into winners
- Capital guaranteed trading
- Remember someone is watching your trades - how to fool them
- Whatever your expectation - I have a model
- Whatever your risk - I have a mitigation tool
and more...
keep watching...as we go on further...
Ok now how about the second trade.
Regards,
Dear Friends,
How does the below sound:
- How to convert your losers into winners
- Capital guaranteed trading
- Remember someone is watching your trades - how to fool them
- Whatever your expectation - I have a model
- Whatever your risk - I have a mitigation tool
and more...
keep watching...as we go on further...
This is the more tougher one for me to dissect without access to intraday IVs or to Option Oracle but let me try failing ...
Risk - Would start to loose money either side of 5450 and 5650. I would quantify the maximum risk as maximum 50 points realistically.
Reward - (53 points of time-decay divided by 5 trading days) + (some dampening in IVs) = maybe a maximum of 15 points
Reason - Gap up and then back to 5550 - Creating a broad range of 5500 (decent Support on intraday charts) to 5600 for the day
With NF at 5550 around that time, the 5600CE-5500PE short strangle would have given lesser rewards given that they would have had lesser premiums. But the BE points may just have been a bit further away.
This trade looked fine as long as we are above that support of 5500, below which this trade would have been in trouble. In the interim - at around 1 pm, we would have been around 5500 and trending down.
By EOD we would have lost around 15 points on this one.
This is just the price action, since I have no clue on how the IVs moved intra-day.
Now I am all yours and ears
E.
Risk - Would start to loose money either side of 5450 and 5650. I would quantify the maximum risk as maximum 50 points realistically.
Reward - (53 points of time-decay divided by 5 trading days) + (some dampening in IVs) = maybe a maximum of 15 points
Reason - Gap up and then back to 5550 - Creating a broad range of 5500 (decent Support on intraday charts) to 5600 for the day
With NF at 5550 around that time, the 5600CE-5500PE short strangle would have given lesser rewards given that they would have had lesser premiums. But the BE points may just have been a bit further away.
This trade looked fine as long as we are above that support of 5500, below which this trade would have been in trouble. In the interim - at around 1 pm, we would have been around 5500 and trending down.
By EOD we would have lost around 15 points on this one.
This is just the price action, since I have no clue on how the IVs moved intra-day.
Now I am all yours and ears
E.
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