A Bird's eye view to a Bull's eye

[stock72]

Dear Stock72,

At least we learn how to decide or in other words the ideas shared are of high standards and reminds me hedge fund strategies.

If not today I hope one day we will have enough money to invest so let the ideas flow.

YES. It is my lack of knowledge to understand. so i request to delete my comments if required.

 

[enygma]

tnsn,

Entering neutral inspite of having a inherent bias is an eye-opener for predominantly futures traders like me with primarily trend or price action following systems.

One immediate question that comes to my mind is another of trader's itches - to do something more about the position before the review time. Your EOD trade for e.g - correctly had review periods at EOD Friday till Tuesday. Would you have tweaked something in the trade had there been a gap down in your favor on Friday morning itself and by noon, the trade was clearly deep in money? Or would the tweaking either because of loss or gain happen only at the review time, given your belief in what your system is telling for that given TF. Or are "level" based reviews better? Like a review at 5600 or at 5450 etc ..

Hope my question is clear !

Thanks,
E.

 

[tnsn2345]

tnsn2345,

So far I am following thread except this post. I think it is too much for my little mind to understand and on first look it says to me that the knowledge and decision making power we need to invest to make this money seems costly compare to other peer investment arena..As you mentioned in some of the above post MY comment can be deleted.

Regards

S'72, I am not clear, whether you did not understand what I was my idea on that trade or whether you think it requires lot of money to implement such idea or there are other better ideas to make more money and 'with equal amount or lesser risk or without losing money'.

If you could elaborate, we can clear our understanding.

Dear Stock72,

At least we learn how to decide or in other words the ideas shared are of high standards and reminds me hedge fund strategies.

If not today I hope one day we will have enough money to invest so let the ideas flow.

Jagan, yes if you are targeting Absoulte Alpha Returns, then you need to be constantly in the markets going long, going short quite regularly, if the amount is large then the TF becomes larger, but the position in the market is mostly likely always there, through the above Neutral Entry example you may choose to be in the market all the times, from Netural to Long, to Netural to Short, to Netural to Short and so on. I also term is as a Spiderman trades you are out of one and then into another, just like that swinging spiderman from one building to the another. Would probably write more on spiderman trades later in subsequent topics. Also related to this subject is a 'spy trade' (kindly remind me, incase I miss out to explain you this as we go further)

tnsn,

Entering neutral inspite of having a inherent bias is an eye-opener for predominantly futures traders like me with primarily trend or price action following systems.

One immediate question that comes to my mind is another of trader's itches - to do something more about the position before the review time. Your EOD trade for e.g - correctly had review periods at EOD Friday till Tuesday. Would you have tweaked something in the trade had there been a gap down in your favor on Friday morning itself and by noon, the trade was clearly deep in money? Or would the tweaking either because of loss or gain happen only at the review time, given your belief in what your system is telling for that given TF. Or are "level" based reviews better? Like a review at 5600 or at 5450 etc ..

Hope my question is clear !

Thanks,
E.

On the first part of this being an eye - opener, I would say that I developed this techinque as I found that once I had developed an opnion (essentially at the resistance or support, I would be keen to take a reversal trade, in many such occasion the trend would continue after some time and then though it seem a sure continuation of trend, since my orginal decision was reversal I would not take a position in continuation of the trend as it was not what I had anticipitated, through this techinque, since I am already in a Netural Trade, I could exit my loss making reversal trade (which was my main position) and continue holding the trend continuing position as it ran into profits.

The above techinques given large room to accomodate, right decision making errors and hence would advise it to starters, till they have developed a good strike rate sytem which gives high probablity of right signals on entry. Even today, I am stuck on lot of occasion when my system though it me some indications and I do not have conviction on that indication, I enter a Netural Trade first only to then release the loss making trade out and continue holding the profit making trade till the end of holding period.

On the second part, of reviewing the position at the end of review period, I can only tell that once you have done your trading portfolio allocation properly, (which is nothing but portfolio managment - we will discuss later) I do not see any reason for me to jump into any intermiate review. If you are thingking that the losses could be large due to gap up / gap down, that such volatility is factors in that time period portfolio and the overall effect on the total portfolio is small, even if that particular trading portfolio postion goes into a deep loss (which generally does not happen - once you have rigid and dynamic decision making trading system / method.

I recollect mentioning somewhere on this forum that I am like a baker, baking breads to cakes, to cookies in different ovens, and for different baking products, you need different temprature and time settings, I just need to open and check those ovens at those set time and not in between. As such when the timer of different oven stops as per what is being baked inside, i.e. end of my holding period, I exit automatically.

Regards,

 

[tnsn2345]

Hi TNSN2345,

My post is not related to the topic what you are discussing so kindly treat is as irrelevant. You may choose to ignore to respond.

Dear CUBYE,

Since you have given me a option, I would excercise it and prefer not to respond, to continue being to the subject. Hope you are not offended.

And I thank to you for admiring me.

Regards,

 

[DanPickUp]

Thank you from the Swiss mountains for the huge time you spent on writing this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM8IxnN1RoE

( Phil Carmen founded the Picar Studios in Stein am Rhein, Switzerland in 1982 and recorded two solo albums which attracted little attention until 1985, when he had a hit with the LP Walkin' the Dog, which reached #3 in the Swiss charts. The single "On My Way in LA" was his greatest success and climbed in the summer of 1985 to #18 in Germany and #9 in Switzerland. "On My Way in LA" was also used in the television series Wild West in 1988. )

Dan

 

[oilman5]

tnsn2345,

So far I am following thread except this post. I think it is too much for my little mind to understand and on first look it says to me that the knowledge and decision making power we need to invest to make this money seems costly compare to other peer investment arena..As you mentioned in some of the above post MY comment can be deleted.

Regards

.......................
yes first u have to get knowledge and decision making skill...........before oneself dream for trading.
.............otherwise one dont understand why even loses.

 

[oilman5]

S'72, I am not clear, whether you did not understand what I was my idea on that trade or whether you think it requires lot of money to implement such idea or there are other better ideas to make more money and 'with equal amount or lesser risk or without losing money'.

If you could elaborate, we can clear our understanding.



Jagan, yes if you are targeting Absoulte Alpha Returns, then you need to be constantly in the markets going long, going short quite regularly, if the amount is large then the TF becomes larger, but the position in the market is mostly likely always there, through the above Neutral Entry example you may choose to be in the market all the times, from Netural to Long, to Netural to Short, to Netural to Short and so on. I also term is as a Spiderman trades you are out of one and then into another, just like that swinging spiderman from one building to the another. Would probably write more on spiderman trades later in subsequent topics. Also related to this subject is a 'spy trade' (kindly remind me, incase I miss out to explain you this as we go further)



On the first part of this being an eye - opener, I would say that I developed this techinque as I found that once I had developed an opnion (essentially at the resistance or support, I would be keen to take a reversal trade, in many such occasion the trend would continue after some time and then though it seem a sure continuation of trend, since my orginal decision was reversal I would not take a position in continuation of the trend as it was not what I had anticipitated, through this techinque, since I am already in a Netural Trade, I could exit my loss making reversal trade (which was my main position) and continue holding the trend continuing position as it ran into profits.

The above techinques given large room to accomodate, right decision making errors and hence would advise it to starters, till they have developed a good strike rate sytem which gives high probablity of right signals on entry. Even today, I am stuck on lot of occasion when my system though it me some indications and I do not have conviction on that indication, I enter a Netural Trade first only to then release the loss making trade out and continue holding the profit making trade till the end of holding period.

On the second part, of reviewing the position at the end of review period, I can only tell that once you have done your trading portfolio allocation properly, (which is nothing but portfolio managment - we will discuss later) I do not see any reason for me to jump into any intermiate review. If you are thingking that the losses could be large due to gap up / gap down, that such volatility is factors in that time period portfolio and the overall effect on the total portfolio is small, even if that particular trading portfolio postion goes into a deep loss (which generally does not happen - once you have rigid and dynamic decision making trading system / method.

I recollect mentioning somewhere on this forum that I am like a baker, baking breads to cakes, to cookies in different ovens, and for different baking products, you need different temprature and time settings, I just need to open and check those ovens at those set time and not in between. As such when the timer of different oven stops as per what is being baked inside, i.e. end of my holding period, I exit automatically.

Regards,

........................................
Dear tnsn2345................
regards for one highest level clarity in mind while trading .
A great intellect on work..........objectivity, visualisation, what if scenario,....how to handle them accurately ,patience............naturally reward is for u.KISS is not simple.............as it may sound, neutral strategy at work..............yes risk mitigation mastery ,u have shown here.
btw why u dont speculate?..........may be u have mastered.........neutrality in mind..........
thanks again for anonymously helping all traderji members

 

[stock72]

.......................
yes first u have to get knowledge and decision making skill...........before oneself dream for trading.
.............otherwise one dont understand why even loses.

What i am trying to say is I am very much interested in trading. And the strategies given as example here seems to be too complicate to ME..And just thought is it not wiser if we invest this much efforts in other arena and I suspect the returns will be much more...

@tnsn2345,

please delete/ignore my post here as it is representing my views and will follow this thread to understand further

 

[tnsn2345]

What i am trying to say is I am very much interested in trading. And the strategies given as example here seems to be too complicate to ME..And just thought is it not wiser if we invest this much efforts in other arena and I suspect the returns will be much more...

@tnsn2345,

please delete/ignore my post here as it is representing my views and will follow this thread to understand further

Dear S'72,

One more method of Netural trade entry is place two SL type entry orders (one short and other long) of the same stock just above the the current price of the stock and keep on changing them in the range - band fashion (something like BB bands) where you have a line above and a line below the price line. At some big price action (either up or down) your one order is triggered and that trend is likely to continue, so hold on. Additionally, once your position is initiated in this fashion of entry, you can then put a SL to this position with twice the quantity, that means that if your SL is hit, than you are out from the original position quantity and now have a reverse position with the original quantity.

e.g. For Stock A, if the stock has fallen from Rs. 110 to current price is Rs. 100 and you have a bullish view now 'as per your system' (especially a trend reversal thinking), you can put a buy SL order of Rs. 102 (1000 qty) and a sell SL order of Rs. 98. (1000 qty)

Now if the stock rises to 102, you will automatically enter a long position at 102 for 1000 qty, then in such a case, since you have created a directional position, you can set a SL at 99 with 2000 quantity.. so incase if the the SL is hit you are now short @ 99 with 1000 quantity. And with this directional position you can then again set a new SL....and so on till the time the chart, your system or price action suggest a strong and most certain direction of the stock till the end of your holding period.

Hope this helps, there are a few more ways to do such things till you have developed a good successful system. And even after you have a robust trading method / system many times, you feel that such entry is beneficial, I still do it many times, even after so many years in trading. This way the profits may be less, but almost certainly there won't be losses. You will need to practice this, which isn't that difficult. But you will need patience with this method. If can control your losses you are still in the game and milking.

Still if there is some disconnect, would like to throw more light / give more live examples, pls PM me if required, and we will take it off line.

Regards,

..ok...now I would close this ice breaker discussion on trade entry here and continue with the subject from next post...on second thoughts I feel that such bit - off track topics may make the flow vibrant and not monotonous or monologue. Also please excuse for wrong spellings, wrong grammer (though I am good at the language) but many times thoughts run faster than the fingers on the keypad.

 

[tnsn2345]

....

Am I worried after I initiate a trade, am I happy or nevous when I exit the trade, you would guess rightly that I would say NO...is it because I am making this statement and not some other budding trader???

What makes me detached from the positions, is it because of good high success trading system? How can I do more research on my existing system and how am I able to refine it, do I refine it regularly. Or use the same system?

The answer to all this lies in how much I put at stake, how much I allocate to my that trading portfolio. So you may ask what is 'that' trading portfolio. Do I have different trading portfolios, if yes, why and what are those, how are they build, what is the basis of funds allocation to them.

When I started I had one trading allocation yes 100% to one TF trading. No prizes for guessing the results, when you have such most skewed allocation and that too without much proven or with just semi successful trading method. So post the results, (as I had mentioned this somewhere on this forum, restating)..."In the dark, the eye begins to see".
....