A new Life, A new Career, A new Dream - I am a Trader

[DanPickUp]

Couldn't see you for the past couple of days .
Hope you are fine.
Dan pls could you confirm if my answers to his query are valid ?
Thanks in advance.

Hi JK

We all once have to go our ways and reduce the time being here in TJ. There are times we learn some thing, then there are times we can give and tell others about trading and share some of our knowledge and then there comes the time to give it over to other, friendly people.

Friendly people like you and many, many others which are no bluffers and cheap tip givers, not always try to be right in predicting markets and not try to bluff of with such stuff.

You trade nifty futures and options and so you surely know very well how they work in your market. That is why I told Taiki to be in contact with you.

Take care / DanPickUp

 

[jain.er]

@JK dont you think rather then shorting a straddle plain vanilla shorting of an option is a better idea (lesser margin and lesser monitoring involved)

 

[Taiki]

You are on a good way , at least the way I do value it. Just my two cents and no granted rule, as there are many ways to be successful.

If you move on on that way: Now do this in different markets, so you can/must build up a portfolio. Why? You will be tested many times and many times market not will come to your place where you sit. To have a higher hit rate when trading the way you start to do now, you are in better hands when doing it in different markets. As always: Your choice and your time.

Take care / DanPickUp

Hi Dan bro,

Nice to see your post again. Yes I have remembered your suggestion of keeping a watch on 2/3 stocks, when I switched to hourly time frame. Working on Hourly frame is definitely giving more room to watch 2/3 stocks and this will increase the hit rate. This week I had a watch on Banknifty along with Nifty. Though I had not taken any trade on BNF, hopefully in coming week i will be trading in both NF and BNF.

Now I am switching to VNS, where I will get a chance to learn currency segment as well. Thank you for your guidance and help bro.

 

[jagankris]

Hi Dan bro,

Nice to see your post again. Yes I have remembered your suggestion of keeping a watch on 2/3 stocks, when I switched to hourly time frame. Working on Hourly frame is definitely giving more room to watch 2/3 stocks and this will increase the hit rate. This week I had a watch on Banknifty along with Nifty. Though I had not taken any trade on BNF, hopefully in coming week i will be trading in both NF and BNF.

Now I am switching to VNS, where I will get a chance to learn currency segment as well. Thank you for your guidance and help bro.

Taiki,

Sorry for discouraging.

Every thing is from my past painful experiences.

What ever I believe need not be the same for you.You could even do better tracking mutiple scripts/stocks.

Just my views below.It is you who has to take the call.

Nothing is right or wrong.
Different traders have different style,rules,financial edge and psychological edges,SW edges,News related edges,Insider infos etc.

Just few questions to your thoughts.

What are the advantages,disadvantages of tracking multiple stocks,
and totally a different currency segment ?

What is there in currency to learn ?

Do you plan to trade all of them simultaneously ?

Will it help in making decisions to trade Nifty confidently ? or will add to the noise and more distraction ? or will help you to keep yourself more focused ?

Will it be possible to manage the all trades of them ?

Will you trade the stocks which that are trending with Nifty or case to case ?

If Nifty is moving up and currency is also moving up what will be your plan ?

Already you are having problems in placing orders.

Pls convince me in what way the above are going to help you.

Just few more questions ? - Pls answer them.

What where your problems while trading 5 minutes charts ?

1 M chart - 375 candles.
5M chart - 75 candles.
15M Chart - 25 candles.
60 M chart - 6 1/4 candles.

Why trading higher time frame alone - you are comfortable ?

What are the emotional short comings in trading lower time frames ?

What steps you have taken to over come this ?
(Remember traders are not born on a day - it requires practice practice - its a long journey).

Why one has to wait for trades ? Is it not possible to enter a trade and manage it at any point of the chart ?

Is anticipation good or bad ? or just follow the price ????

Assuming You have sufficient capital and you aim to capture 40 points a day trading Nifty options.ie. to make 2000 rs a day.

Pls choose the best answer below (Nothing is right or wrong).

1 Trade - 20 lots - 2 points a day.
1 Trade - 1lot- 40 points a day.Sit for the target.
2 Trades -4lots - 5 points a trade.(No scaling in - fixed).
4 Trades -2lots - 5 points a trade.(No scaling in - fixed).
1 Trade - 4 lots - with scaling - ie add position when in profit).
20 trades - 2 lots - 1 point a trade (Aughu bai style - I am referring to the trade size)

The initial success will tempt you to jump to multiple stocks,currencies,commodities etc pls stop refraining in doing so.

Is it not possible to make profits in Nifty alone if you are trading well than focusing multiple instruments. ?

If not have a mentor who can tell you when to go to the next step.

Just proove your success to yourself for say 100 trades or till double this capital and give the initial capital to your home.

When ever you make a very big profit in a trade be very careful and cautious.
Usually that will be turning point of markets in much speedier way in the opposite direction.

My humble suggestion once again - don't think of trading stocks,currencies etc for at least 6 months.Trade Nifty or Nifty options.Till you are successful and consistent with the results.Till you are consistent in following the process and treat profit and loss days alike.

Initial Trading success will give euphoria which deadliest enemy of a trader.

How successful traders counter their trading euphoria - a deadly enemy for a trader with.

My friend Swing King used give party to his traders on all loosing days and cheer up and enjoy.While on winning days nobody is allowed to cheer up in euphoria and no body is allowed to talk about the success.

Similarly Subhadeep Nandi a famous trader,SW vendor of charts and conduct paid trading sessions usually enters in bulk.Once the trade is successful and has made a good lot of money say (2-3 lakhs).Will stop trading for the next 3 to 4 days.

Pls Note : - - Take a second opinion from DAN,ST.

 

[rajsumi121]

Trading is game of high quality discipline & patience ....to win this game we have to master our emotions like a monk . ..to master our emotions we need lot n lot practice like very famous Hindi probe " kart -kart abhyaas ke jadmati hot sujan " . if we talk about step by step process then my view's are as under


1. We have to clear about our goal very specifically ...I repeating the word specifically once again because its very important in our over all success in life ... ..for example if one says often that I want to earn huge money or I want to be rich person is not enough to reach our goal because when we know exactly what we want ... we make strategy according to that ... like If our goal is to earn 2000 rs daily then we adopt different strategy & if we want to earn 10000 rs daily then we need totally different strategy & different mind set .so its 1st and very important step to knowing about we we actually looking for ( very specifically ) .

2. We need a good strategy or trading plan which can perform with 60-70% winning ratio .

3. We need to take action according to our trading plan & our goal ..... here we need 2 mantra 1st discipline & 2nd patience .....as well as our plan working properly and giving us good outcome we have to continue with our strategy but if not than we need to have enough flexibility to change our strategy to achieve desired outcome ... many people set their goals , they have good strategy and they also very good in taking action but they also fails to achieve their goal because they keep doing same thing again & again even that is not giving them their edge ... as a trader we never change our habit , strategy & attitude . we keep watching blue channels as we watching & listening them from when we started our trading ....we rely on so called analysts and fake tips as well as ... we have same strategy ... we change tips provider ... we shift ourselves to one website to other to acquire knowledge but we never change our attitude .this is what we need to change by time to time to achieve our desired goal .

4. Risk management & money management is anther factor what we need to be a successful trader ... one famous saying of a great trader is - " one who have great trading strategy but poor risk management will under perform the guy who have very poor trading strategy but good risk management .

Many other things & ideas can be written in this post about successful trading but what I wrote here is 4 basic & most important things according to my limited knowledge .Please bear with me As I am very small learner in this money market . Thanks n happy trading .:clapping::lol:

 

[DanPickUp]

@JK

Very nice post and I do not think that Taiki takes it as a discouraging post. Trading different scripts can truly bring in more noise and stress. Can, but not necessary must. It is also true that the decision to trade more scripts will be build up on different thoughts compare to take the decision to trade only one market. No right / no wrong. It just needs very clear thoughts about:

What is/are my trading plan/s?

And your post surely helps other traders, which may are not so clear about there trading plans, to find out more about what may should be of value to them on that specific points you spot on.

By the way: Hope Swing King is well. Have not been in contact with him for a longer time.

Take care / DanPickUp

 

[Taiki]

Hi Jagan Bhai & Dan bro,

First of all, that post is not at all discouraging, Experience and Knowledge from a trader like you and other seniors, never discourage a newbie. It only shows right path and give guidance in deciding what is right and what is to be avoided.

Now about trading multiple stocks :

My initial plan was trading with Nifty atleast for the 1st quarter. And when I switched to Hourly time frame, i found there is more room to analyse the market structure well as the charts in hourly frame moves slower, and number of signals in that frame is also lesser than that of 2min/5min frame. But still do not want to divert my attention to any other stocks. It is only Banknifty that I added to my watch, as many times NF/BNF follows each other and trend/trade together. So I think it can give a clear idea where the market is heading. (Your thoughts are needed on this).

Previously, before quitting the job I had tried of tracking multiple stocks and found I was not comfortable in doing so. And it was affecting my decision taking capability. So I have decided not to repeat the same mistakes now. But on a longer term plan, If in future i get comfortable with tracking many stocks, then my plan is to be sector specific, rather than choosing stocks randomly. My plan is to stick to banking sectors with their index (BNF) and some sector's mover/dragger like (SBIN/PNB) etc. But this is a long term plan, and nothing is final at this time.

Now talking about currency, again I do not see myself trading with currency in next 3 months. I will be checking the price movement EOD basis, will test if my current strategy fits there or not, Else I will try to build another strategy for that. Then it will be a different story, of testing the strategy, implementing and so on. For the time being I just want to learn the behaviour of currency market and how other factors are affecting our Nifty's movement.

Do you plan to trade all of them simultaneously ?

Will it help in making decisions to trade Nifty confidently ? or will add to the noise and more distraction ? or will help you to keep yourself more focused ?

Will it be possible to manage the all trades of them ?

If Nifty is moving up and currency is also moving up what will be your plan ?

Currently no such plans, as I have absolute zero knowledge in currency, and will just keep an eye on that,


Now, talking about time frames,

Why trading higher time frame alone - you are comfortable ?

What are the emotional short comings in trading lower time frames ?

What steps you have taken to over come this ?

I am finding hourly time frame more comfortable to trade with, where I am not worried about intra-day counter trends and whipsaws. With shorter time frame, I was finding it difficult to hold on to profit position when market retraces a bit. May be multiple entry/exit would help there, but surely i was not comfortable there doing multiple trades. I think i am getting more relaxed with "Trade less earn more" kind of strategy.

To overcome this, i shifted my strategy to 1 hr chart, keeping all the rules same. What I found is entries got perfected and lesser number of trades were going into loss as compared to smaller time frame. And kept 10 min charts for a reference to observe the smaller trend.

Why one has to wait for trades ? Is it not possible to enter a trade and manage it at any point of the chart ?

Is anticipation good or bad ? or just follow the price ????

Taking example from Friday's trade, When market was rising in the early hour i was sitting with no trade. The reasons for not buying at that time, was

1. No buy signal had come from my strategy
2. Move was against the major trend.

but when Nifty started taking resistance at 5685, and I got a short signal from my system, that was a high probability trade. My strategy so far is "I am not here to catch the every moves, but the high probability ones".

And about anticipating the market, i have seen myself in past not to believe what I see in chart only because i had anticipated something different. And ended up trading against the trend and making loss.

But after all I have just started my path here. I would like to hear your and other senior's experiences on this matter.

The initial success will tempt you to jump to multiple stocks,currencies,commodities etc pls stop refraining in doing so.

Is it not possible to make profits in Nifty alone if you are trading well than focusing multiple instruments. ?

If not have a mentor who can tell you when to go to the next step.

Just proove your success to yourself for say 100 trades or till double this capital and give the initial capital to your home.

My initial plan was only Nifty for first quarter. But may be this can be good milestone to achieve first, before analysing my trades and performance. Lets say from Monday, i will keep track of 100 trades in Nifty and analyse my performance. And again in no way I was going to start trading in currency/commodity. They are just sideways learning.

And again, still there are lot more to learn in trading Nifty itself. Like yesterday your described a good option strategy for Nifty, I am still going through that hedging technique and analysing option strategy.

All these answers are my thoughts and from my little knowledge and experience. I would love to hear senior's and other people's thoughts on them

Regards
Taiki

 

[DanPickUp]

@Taiki

Do not over estimate your time and knowledge. Stay with what you know and make money NOW with that. You say you already gave up your job, so it must be

NOW.

As JK posted in the past: The impression could come up that you are not 100% prepared to do the job. So be careful in your stage to not lose the fight. Time moves on quicker as we some times wish.

In case you are not 100% prepared to do the job: Take this as a wake up call. and do not experiment to much in this stages. Not a good idea. First go for many good trades with your existing system to stay cool with your self/self confidence and in a few month start to test in dept other systems.

As always: Your choice, just my two cents and finally: Your time and money.

Take care and have a nice weekend / DanPickUp

 

[jagankris]

Hi Jagan Bhai & Dan bro,

First of all, that post is not at all discouraging, Experience and Knowledge from a trader like you and other seniors, never discourage a newbie. It only shows right path and give guidance in deciding what is right and what is to be avoided.

Now about trading multiple stocks :

..................................................................
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Regards
Taiki

Taiki,

Thanks for your understanding.
See if Nifty - BNF correlation helps you or a distraction and decide accordingly.

Since you are looking for confirmation I am giving my madness in searching for the same .

At least you are shrude enough to track only Nifty,BNF correlation.

I thought just by having a multi stock correlation(all index heavy weights) Reliance, Infy,SBIN,TCS,ITC,L&T,HDFC Bank,ONGC ,Bharthi Airtel,Tatasteel....... and the list continued will help in a perfect system.

Multi sector Index.

Why not add advance decline ratio ?

Then why not real time open interest ?

Why not put call ratio ?

No no no - why not track all the index option charts ? along with the above.

No - multi timeframe macd and multi time frame macd of all the stocks.

No all these are lagging - let me try order flow analysis.

This order flow sucks in 1m time frame it is showing buying but in the 5 minutes it is still in the selling mode.Should I buy or wait ????

Will the above set rules enough for confirmation.

At any point of a day at a resistance or support - will any of these holy grail systems will tell that the market movers are going to break the support or resistance sadly no.

Nope this directional bias sucks - Non directional option strategies are the best.
What last month calendar spread worked and this month reverse calendar spread is working.No this cant be.I will go with Iron condors.
No simply straddle is the best.This straddle sucks.

No No current month next month arbitrage is the safest .

No no I should have level 2 data.



so all the above didn't worked ???
Every thing worked but not 100%.But say more more than 80%.
But the trader was not ready to follow any of them "Consistently".
With just one or 2 failures drop that thing and search for new one.
Searching searching searching.

Please try to understand that trading is about "uncertainty".
There is no holy grail..If at all there is one markets will not exist.
No matter what ever amount of rules of confirmation you add there will be in the corner of mind a slight doubt to pull the trigger.
We humans tend to look for a logical confirmation.
There is no such thing in trading.

The successful know this and have a system / set of predefined rules which puts odds in his favour and take the trades with out any hesitation.
Loss and whipsaws are part of the trading - please accept this and sooner the better.

Slowly your trading edge will get shaped and it will take its time.

Keep focused and have a written trading plan.
Have clear well defined achievable goals in terms of performance.
Not in terms of profit.
Profit is the natural outcome if you follow your trading process correctly.
One step at a time.
Let's track your 100 record trade excel sheet.And then take the next step.

"Keep it simple stupid. "Ignorance is bliss".
Higher the learning lower will be your trading performance and it will take more time to become a disciplined trader.

I am ending with the quotes of Dan and Swing King
"Clear mind is all that you require for trading success".

Good luck and best wishes and god bless you.

 

[Taiki]

@Taiki


In case you are not 100% prepared to do the job: Take this as a wake up call. and do not experiment to much in this stages. Not a good idea. First go for many good trades with your existing system to stay cool with your self/self confidence and in a few month start to test in dept other systems.

Taiki,

Keep focused and have a written trading plan.
Have clear well defined achievable goals in terms of performance.
Not in terms of profit.
Profit is the natural outcome if you follow your trading process correctly.
One step at a time.

Let's track your 100 record trade excel sheet.And then take the next step.

"Keep it simple stupid. "Ignorance is bliss".
Higher the learning lower will be your trading performance and it will take more time to become a disciplined trader.

I am ending with the quotes of Dan and Swing King
"Clear mind is all that you require for trading success".

Thank you Dan bro & jagan bro,

So taking all the thoughts, and advices from you, I am sticking to my original plan of trading in Nifty. Target is to maximize profitable trades,and building confidence. Thanks again