Comfortable profits from trading Nifty.

[DanPickUp]

Re: Amateurish.

It first gave sell signal on 13th and then a buy call on 18th and again sell call on 19th.There were so many whipsaws not sure which one to follow.Is there anything else also that needs to be followed in 315?

What ever MA system you use, it will crash when it comes to whipsaw markets. That is the limit with such simple systems, even they work very well in trendy markets.

What to do<

Try this< Take out all MAs in your chart and every other indicator in it in such markets. Use only trend lines.

Use Candles or bars and try to see patterns like bullish and bearish flags, double and triple tops or what ever you know and understand. Inside and out side bars or hammers and hangman.

Analyze a counter market which has a negative correlation to your share or what ever. Do it on hourly and daily charts and let the small five and three minute charts on the left side. To dangerous to be catched on small stop losses.

You even can trade specific strategies under such circumstances, but that would be an other subject.

Good trading

DanPickUp

 

[Rajeevji]

Re: Amateurish.

What ever MA system you use, it will crash when it comes to whipsaw markets. That is the limit with such simple systems, even they work very well in trendy markets.

What to do<

Try this< Take out all MAs in your chart and every other indicator in it in such markets. Use only trend lines.

Use Candles or bars and try to see patterns like bullish and bearish flags, double and triple tops or what ever you know and understand. Inside and out side bars or hammers and hangman.

Analyze a counter market which has a negative correlation to your share or what ever. Do it on hourly and daily charts and let the small five and three minute charts on the left side. To dangerous to be catched on small stop losses.

You even can trade specific strategies under such circumstances, but that would be an other subject.

Good trading

DanPickUp

Hello Dan,

The question still remains: what can help us recognize such range bound markets in advance. Once I was trading Nifty Future using 315 and had about 6 or 7 whipsaws in a sequence.

Request you to elaborate more clearly.

regards

Rajeev

 

[DanPickUp]

Re: Amateurish.

Hello Dan,

The question still remains: what can help us recognize such range bound markets in advance. Once I was trading Nifty Future using 315 and had about 6 or 7 whipsaws in a sequence.

Request you to elaborate more clearly.

regards

Rajeev

Dear Rajeev

That was not the question in the other post. You only asked if there are other things to watch and I gave you a lot of proven ideas which you not even have tried now. Hmm

The question you now ask is irrelevant, as you ask with the words< IN ADVANCE.

There is no advance and you can be 100% sure that there is no way to find out in advance if we are going to be in a sideways market or not. If that tool would exist, I never ever would show it to any body as every body else which would have such a tool never ever would show it. That would be the holy grail and every body which would have such a tool would have the absolute advantage about every other trader in the market. So, completely irrelevant question.

The first support and resistance in any sideways market is not known to any trader. Only after that is shown, we can start to speculate with the help of volatility and some other parameters if we may will stay in that range. And if we have recognized such a range, we can make huge money by trading it the right way, means strategy. But again, that is an other topic which has no relevance in this thread here.

Good trading

DanPickUp

 

[jamit_05]

Re: Amateurish.

It first gave sell signal on 13th and then a buy call on 18th and again sell call on 19th.There were so many whipsaws not sure which one to follow.Is there anything else also that needs to be followed in 315?

Failure or success of any method depends on its entry system and exit system both. Just looking at whipsaws and discarding a method is not justified. Whipsaws are there due to a trading range formation. Once a range breaks the return will be enough to cover all losses and give proportional profits.

If you are following 315 and are not finding the performance suitable then I suggest you should discard the scrip (instead of the method) and resort to something which swings lesser. Like the weekly charts of stocks or Daily Nifty.

All systems, which give objective entries, have a period of whipsaws. There is no dodging it. However, you can work on your exits.

And yes, you will have to take all signals. Being choosy will come at the risk of missing the big trend.

regards.

 

[jamit_05]

Re: Amateurish.

Use Candles or bars and try to see patterns like bullish and bearish flags, double and triple tops or what ever you know and understand. Inside and out side bars or hammers and hangman.

Analyze a counter market which has a negative correlation to your share or what ever. Do it on hourly and daily charts and let the small five and three minute charts on the left side. To dangerous to be catched on small stop losses.

You even can trade specific strategies under such circumstances, but that would be an other subject.

Good trading

DanPickUp

The above suggestion is apt. It is the ultimate stage of a trader. However, before one reaches there he has to understand all the major concepts of trading... like the back of his hand. Till then... he will have to trade an objective system.

I have suggested, to gtm900, some practical ways to avoid whipsaws in 315. Of course! not all can be avoided... but yes some are dodged.

Thanks.

 

[jamit_05]

Whipsaws.

Hello Dan,

The question still remains: what can help us recognize such range bound markets in advance. Once I was trading Nifty Future using 315 and had about 6 or 7 whipsaws in a sequence.

Request you to elaborate more clearly.

regards

Rajeev

In what time-frame?

Either way. A simple system comes with its share of whipsaws. Ask Gurmy he is trading one. But the point is, when the system is at its best , does it cover all losses and fulfills your profit expectation. If it does then no reason to complain.

regards.

 

[DanPickUp]

Hi

Here just a little and last update on how to trade sideways market or how to chart them.

http://i47.tinypic.com/34ipxma.jpg

In the currencies market you some times have such range plays like shown in the above chart, which is an older chart from the Euro Currencies. We traded that through a technique which is called Point and Figure and no other indicator. P and F is one of the oldest chart techniques I know beside the candles, which are used for houndert of years from the Japanese traders. PF shows extremely well the whipsaw market with support and resistance. Those technique you can use even on the smallest time frame and here it was used on the 5 min time frame. The only problem with that technique is to find the right box sizes for the given situation and that needs some experience with that technique.

As you clearly can see< It is an uptrend with whipsaws. You also clearly see that on each new range the first resistance and the new support is only known after it happens.

How to make huge money with such a chart<

There are different ways and one I will spot on a bit here< You can for example start with a synthetic call and then play the future which you trade with limit orders which are placed in advance in the range and not at s and r. In that way you will be filled. At the moment market moves up to the next range, you will have to adjust your limit orders according to the new shown s and r on the chart. Not as easy as it sounds, but when done the right way, a pure money machine as you each time the market finishes one of those oscillation up and down in the range are filled. We talk here only about a ranges from around 50 pips or less, but try to calculate by your self how many times you are filled on each range level and do that on the whole chart. Now add it and you see how many pips you have made only with one future traded the right way.

Now I wish you a very happy Christmas time and many good trades in 2013

DanPickUp

 

[Rajeevji]

Re: Whipsaws.

In what time-frame?

Either way. A simple system comes with its share of whipsaws. Ask Gurmy he is trading one. But the point is, when the system is at its best , does it cover all losses and fulfills your profit expectation. If it does then no reason to complain.

regards.

Dear Amit

Daily time frame, Minifty traded on EOD basis, from 29th Feb 12 to 18th Apr 12. Total seven trades with six losers. Net loss 167 points. Skipped the next two trades, which would have made up the losses & brokerage.

Have understood your point: Losses are inevitable in mechanical trading, but they will be made put, and 315 is good. We can improve by working on our exits.

thanks & regards

Rajeev

 

[jamit_05]

Re: Whipsaws.

Dear Amit

Daily time frame, Minifty traded on EOD basis, from 29th Feb 12 to 18th Apr 12. Total seven trades with six losers. Net loss 167 points. Skipped the next two trades, which would have made up the losses & brokerage.

Have understood your point: Losses are inevitable in mechanical trading, but they will be made put, and 315 is good. We can improve by working on our exits.

thanks & regards

Rajeev

Hello,

It goes to show one fact I long believed in:

Entries and Stop losses are the two sides of the same coin. It is just as important to take all entries, as it is to take all stop losses.

A mechanical system makes this very easy. All you need is faith, which comes after sufficient back-testing. In fact, I have suggested that after every two bad trades, increase position size by 10%. It has tremendous psychological impact. Think over it. It puts one is a positive frame of mind to take the next entry.

Before introducing the system to gmt900 he was given a rule to avoid a bad period. (gmt: I hope you are revising the rules). After a huge move (500+ points), which happens twice a year, skip the next 4 trades for a simple reason: our requirement is fulfilled. And also cuz it is observed that huge trends are not followed by huge trends but often by a period of whipsaw.

To be a successful trader, the route is simple. Just be in conversation before putting your money where your mind is.

 

[gmt900]

Re: Whipsaws.

Hello,

It goes to show one fact I long believed in:

Entries and Stop losses are the two sides of the same coin. It is just as important to take all entries, as it is to take all stop losses.

A mechanical system makes this very easy. All you need is faith, which comes after sufficient back-testing. In fact, I have suggested that after every two bad trades, increase position size by 10%. It has tremendous psychological impact. Think over it. It puts one is a positive frame of mind to take the next entry.

Before introducing the system to gmt900 he was given a rule to avoid a bad period. (gmt: I hope you are revising the rules). After a huge move (500+ points), which happens twice a year, skip the next 4 trades for a simple reason: our requirement is fulfilled. And also cuz it is observed that huge trends are not followed by huge trends but often by a period of whipsaw.

To be a successful trader, the route is simple. Just be in conversation before putting your money where your mind is.

Dear jamit,
I am revising the the rules. I was attracted to your thread because of the caption "Comfortable profits trading Nifty". I now realise that the comfort will come after a lot of hard work. Of course that it how it should be. There are no free lunches.
gmt 900