Daily Tryst with Nifty

humble

Well-Known Member
Neither I can see HnS.....BTW what MA are you using in above chart?
Sorry, I did mean "Inverted" H&S :) ... [Referred it to as H&S, just to highlight the number of H&S or I-H&S we were seeing in the last few posts :)].


For the EOD chart of Mini NF, for a longer time, it looks even better :) [Thanks Murtaza Sir].




EMA are same as that of Pride's System, 5 and 13 [Does seem to work well, still finalzing few formalities in extending Pride's system on hourly charts.].

Regards,
-Sri
 

WOD

Well-Known Member
Alright....are you guys checking Dow....it is in +ve and my PEs looks in danger.....lets see tomorow....
 

humble

Well-Known Member
Alright....are you guys checking Dow....it is in +ve and my PEs looks in danger.....lets see tomorow....
The kind of volumes with which we went down, the highs from which we went down [traversed almost 180 points from highs] looks we could be bearish for 2/3 days.

Anyway's we can only wait and watch, if it does the other way, we will learn something I hope :).

Regards,
-Sri
 

MurAtt

Well-Known Member
@Humble -- No sir please. At least not me. Sunil sir, yes.

@WOD -- Y'day Nasdaq & Dow and Asia were all up, did we close up? Kya yaar!!!
BUT yes a positive open bias is there BUT THEN AGAIN U NEVER KNOW.
If u r so sceptical in just 6 hrs of buying put, next time take decision after 6 hrs of becoming sceptical.

Know what, not many days left for July expiry, buy August put/call from monday onwards
 

WOD

Well-Known Member
@Humble -- No sir please. At least not me. Sunil sir, yes.

@WOD -- Y'day Nasdaq & Dow and Asia were all up, did we close up? Kya yaar!!!
BUT yes a positive open bias is there BUT THEN AGAIN U NEVER KNOW.
If u r so sceptical in just 6 hrs of buying put, next time take decision after 6 hrs of becoming sceptical.

Know what, not many days left for July expiry, buy August put/call from monday onwards
That was just a lite note SM, me also dont rely on international market news much.......

Anyways...I believe this is the time to buy July put/call, remember PT's zero ya hero game......I loves to play that game.....I am all set ready to play that game again starting from monday.,...
 

AW10

Well-Known Member
Trading Plan:

(Draft of rules given for NR7 trading by AW is my main source of inspiration for writting my trading plan; Aw's suggestion of using 3,8,13 has also produced a base for my system. I always believe in building one floor onto another,rather than starting from the scratch)
I never thought that my post can inspire someone. But I am happy that the post has served its purpose. Thanks a lot.

As promised, I am giving my feedback on your TPlan here. Some points may be too direct but Plz take it in right spirit. Feel free to ignore whatever part you like.

I am highlighting few pointers here and collecting all my answers in next post.

Happy Trading. Looking forward to see TRADER WOD soon.

Assumptions:
2.Nifty Futures and options would be my main and only inventory (As I said I am effective only when focused on single thing so nifty is my only darling).
Good focus on instrument. but don't mix them in one plan. Rule of game are different for both instruments cause their price behaviour is different. I will suggest to keep this plan for Futures. In risk mgmt section, use options to manage yr overnight risk against gap open. You can use set of rules to find out direction of market/ direction of trade etc. After that, entry/ exit/ stop rules will vary.

3.During market hour, crossover of SMA 3, 8 and 13 on 5 min chart would be used to make trading decisions with some help from RSI & BB. After market hours, all analysis will be done only on 60 min chart of only past 15 days using some chart patterns (including NR7) and RSI & BB.
Refer to point A

4.System for long positions have been mentioned which will be just reversed in case of short trades.

Underlying logic behind my system:
1.Crossover of SMA 3,8 on 5 min would be giving good single for fine tunning of the trade which will be based on hourly trend as shown by SMA 13.
2.In case SMA 3,5 gives trading signal but angle of SMA 13 is not convincing enough then in such a case BB and RSI will be brought into the picture for early entry or exit.
Refer point B
Setup rules:
-There should be crossover of SMA 3,8 &13 has triggered with atleast crossover of 3&8 giving clear trading signal.
-In case angle of 13 SMA is not convincing enough then BB (20,3) and RSI(14) would be brought into cosiderations and trading call will be taken if both of them should favour trading singnal given by SMA 3&8 crossover.
Refer point A

Entry rules:
-Buy if SMA crossover is like 3>8>13 (crossover angle of all of them is convincing). Buy on the high of bar + 8.3 on which this crossover has happened ( 8.3 is the filter which I
need to keep modifying as this system matures)
-Buy if SMA crossover is like 3>8 (crossover angle of 3&8 is convincing but not of SMA 13) and RSI < 50 & bars touching lower BB.Buy on the high of bar + 8.3 on which crossover of SMA 3&8 has happened
Refer point C

Exit - stoploss:
-Sell on low of bar - 8.3, on which most recent crossover (this crossover is one on which buy call was taken) has happened.

Exit - profit booking:
-if SMA crossover is like 3<8<13 (crossover angle of all of them is convincing).Sell on the low of bar - 8.3 on which this crossover of 3<8<13 has happened.

Exit - Trailing stop loss:
-if SMA crossover is like 3<8 (crossover angle of 3&8 is convincing but not of 13) and RSI > 50 & bars touching higher BB.Sell on the low of bar - 8.3 on which crossover
has happened
Refer point D

Position Sizing: (This I will have to modify after 3-4 years when I will switch to full time trading)
-As I will be doing part time trading for next 3-4 years, I will be trading only in nifty (no other script is possible for me to manage), hence any given time I would be in single trade. So, I would be putting 75-80% of my capital on single trade with 20-25% of the capital kept for margin covering in case trade is going against me and is within my stop loss.
-So whatever futures of options contract I could buy with my 75-80% of capital would be my position sizing. No add-ons or SAR currently in picture.
Refer point F

Money management:
-I will be taking risk of no more than 5 % of my total capital on one trade. Accordingly, I will calculate the points of risk I am ready to take and will take the trade only if these points are within my risk limit of 5% .
-I will not be leaving more than 150 points on the table overnight.
Refer point F

Mental Setup:
-I am gonna understand my system very well by identifying its strong and week points.
-I will not look for any other exits rule than those defined above.
-I will not look at daily, weekely charts of nifty; any other technical tools than those defined under system; any other international indices and channels like CNBC.
-I will spend my all energy focussing execution of trade rather than caring about profit and loss points on the trade.
Not touching this point here as this is big topic.. and it is more or less part of your trading business as such. Not so much specific to this strategy. Maybe we take up this later.

When not to trade my plan:
-In case I dont have open position and mind is occupied with other things.
Refer point G
 

AW10

Well-Known Member
Feedback on Trading plan continue...- Here are the points..

Common points - What u have written here is mix of trading plan and trading system. scope of TP = your complete trading practice. Should include what u do after mkt hrs, before mkt hrs, on weekly / daily / monthly basis etc. When will u put money in your acct/ when u will withdraw/ how much etc , What will u do to invest in you to improve as a trader (u are the most valuable asset to yr trading buss/ What is yr backup plan to handle any unforseen circumstance etc etc.
That is topic for another post.. Let me focus on Trading system that u are trying to draft here.

(A)I think, usage of 3/8/13 ma and juggling between timeframe is not very clear. Generally we can use 2 or 3 TFs in our trading. At early stage, just use 2 TF. Higher TF to form your opinion. nad lower TF to pull the trigger and take trade. Odds are in our favour when our trade direction is supported by higher TF.
When I mentioned about triple MA, the intention was to decide if trend is in place and whether it is still intact or not.
Fast setting of 3/8 is fine at higher TF. but on your trading TF, that might result in too many whipsaw. 3 and 8 bar MA on 5min just covers 15 /40min of action. IMO, that is
not sufficient to make trading decision. 1 big bar and open is sufficient to skew the MA calculation in Trading TF.

Suggestion - use them on say 15m/30m/ 60m to decide if trend is intact or not. But make your entry decision based on somethign else.
When all 3 are nicely arranged (happens 65 to 70% of time) then u have clear signal for trend trade. when 30 to 35% time when they are mixed up, you are better off taking coffee break if you don't have strategy to trade that type of mkt condition..

(B) Indicators - When using small MA numbers, better to use EMA which give higher weight to recent bar and effect of long bar gets neutralised gradually.
SMA gives equal weight to each bar.. and hence the moment long bar gets in/out of calculation, it skews the result.
Don't mix, RSI / BB here in their standard form. You can use RSI confirm the trend.. or help u not to take a trade when RSI is in OB zone etc. Better to decide the purpose of
using a particular indicator. You can use same indicator for diffirent purpose. Like BB - can help u get into breakout trade.. or can also help u in trading reversal.
When u use BB (20,3).. u are trying to trade 20 bar MA of your chart TF.. and 1% exceptional cases in that timeframe. 3 stands for 3 standard deviation.. which means that 99% of price is covered in this range.. and only 1% goes out of 3 standard deviation. So statistically, out of evey 100 bars, u will get 1 bar going out of 3 std dev BBand.

Bottomline - know what u are doing.

(C) Good that your entry rules are quite clear (8.3 points from L/H of the bar etc) but I doubt if they fit the timeframe of 5 mins. I don't know how u got the number of 8.3.. But let me put my thought procsss here. You are trading 5 min bar. Average size of 5 min bar is 10 pts. Most likely trend (70 to 80% of the time) on 5 min bar will be less then 5 to 6 bars before we see the reversal. If we consider
40% of area is overlapped between bars then most like you will see the opportunity of size = 10 pts * 5 bar* (1-40%) = 30 pts.
If u are using filter of 8.5 pts for entry and exit and lets keep 3 pts for brokerage on each leg.. It is going to cost you (8.5+3)*2 = 23 pts. That means out of 30 pts, 23 is gone now. So where is the money left in the trade. Reality could be far worse then this..

8.5 filter on 30 min bar might be OK where average size of bar is 40 pts. so same calculation will give = 40*5*(1-.4) = 120 pts. So you can afford to give up 23 pts

(D) For exits, my prefernce is to use market structure based price level - PH/PL etc. They are easy to identify on the chart just at a glance.. Indicator based
exits are late cause they need bar to close. and many times u see big breakout bar on chart, but indicators have not considered it cause they are still waiting for
bar to close. Exits are most important part of your System. So plz put more time on it.. Manual Backtesting of your strategy helps in this cause you can see
each of your trade on paper.. and develop the feel of better exits points.

(E) Angle of MA line - You can make it more objective by comparing the last value with value 2 or 3 bars back. If the absolute difference is > xxx pts then MA is sloping else it is sideway.
By backtesting you can find out reasonable value for xx points.
Will be challange to see this on chart.. But if u want to calculate this on higher TF, then u can easily use Excel to calculate it. If you put some basic knowledge of solving equations.. then
u can also determine the expected price level in next bar.. if that is hit.. then your MA calculation will give u trigger. That way u don't have to wait till the completion of bar.. but can be ahead
of all other MA followers..

(F) Position size is not what u have mentioned. It is about how big shd be yr trade size so that u stay in business.. and blow your account.
Even if you have a system that is 99% succecssful, but that 1 % can be your next trade.. and it shd not throw u out of business.
Easiest will be to define - for 50k Rs in account, 1 wil trade 1 contract. Out of which 25k will be for margin and 25k will be towards trade risk. I monthly loss is >10 %, I will stop trading and analyse what
is going wrong and how to correct it.

Good that u are addressign it here. In my view, for derivative trading, the % of acct on risk shd not be total account.. but the amount left for risk capital. If u have 50k acct.. u can't touch 25k of margin money so u can't calculate as part of risk money. To stay in the business u need min 25k in yr acct. What u can risk is remaining part.. which is not complete acct but (acct size - margin capital).
If you are risking 5% then 20 wrong trade and u are out of business.. That is why it is suggested that keep this to 2 to 3% limit so that u have enough trades to recover your loss and be a long term player.
This is not 20-20 match. but test match and we need to have plan to Bat for all 5 days...

(G) This part is not addressed correctly. IMO, this should address the market situation / personal situation.. when present, u will skip trading this strategy.
eg - if it is trend chasing system.. but u get signal from your big picture analysis that it is mixed market.. like 3/8/13 are not aligned properly.. so u skip trades.
Or you have urgent delivery at office / Health problem / important date with GF .. so skip trading.


Thats lot of stuff.. but that shows my weakness (my breaks are bit weak so once Ferrari is in motion, it is difficult to stop)..

Feel free to ask any doubts /discuss etc.. I am sure, other experienced people will also give views on this. Hope that I too get slightly different perspective from their feedback and response on this.

Happy Trading. Looking forward to see TRADER WOD soon.
 

ag_fx

Well-Known Member
What a detailed reply .....It could only be AW10... I m sure WOD wud thank you for this....bt let me first do dat...

Thank You AW10..

I still remember you as the first person to give me feedback when I tried trading MACD 9-10 months back.....My first thread...My first attempt with TA....And you are still the same...

God Bless You
 

AW10

Well-Known Member
Thanks Ankit. Old habits die hard. I do remember that post.
LT - Thanks buddy. Ofcourse, it took some time to collect my thoughts and put it down. It it helps even 1 person then I am paid indirectly for my effort. Anyway, I enjoyed the experience of sharing (specially with a person who is serious about this tough business of trading).

Happy Trading
 

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