Discount Broker Comparison

[blisscapital]

@BPR CompositeEdge nse cash and future Transaction charge is 450 per crore as per their website..plz chk in yr calculator

 

[vaibhav05]

BPR and everyone,

In a business like this, a business of scale, only the people who have the scale survive. For every 1 Ryan air or Air asia or Indigo( 100 others fail), For every 1 easy group 100 others fail, for every 1 micromax 100 others who tried the same failed, for every 1 amazon 100 others failed... that is the law of nature.

In case of airlines or any other business which focuses on giving discounted prices, if the business goes bust there is nothing much to loose for us the end user. But in case of a financial services firm, if it goes bust, so will our money sitting with them. This is a broker, do you remember what happened to Global Trust bank?

All those who are in the delusional world of, your money is safe with your brokerage, excuse me, did you just see what happened with NSEL? that was an exchange itself.

I am a CA and was part of a research team for an international brokerage who was looking at viability of business in India. They eventually decided not to, but my job during that time was to do an industry analysis, that is when I ended up seeing balance sheet of all the brokerages and landed on this forum.

Today cost of being a broker on NSE and BSE is around Rs 3 crores, including your backoffice cost, office space and initial setup cost. The running cost is atleast 10lks/month. I am assuming this if the person is using NSE NOW where technology is free. But if they have their own technology another 70lks/year in fixed cost.

If this broker charges Rs 1000/client he needs to get 1000 active clients for making Rs 10lks and another 1000 clients to recover initial investment cost. Probably another 500 for recovering his advertisement cost.

That is 2500 active clients before he sees any money.

Now coming to the very interesting part, Reliance money with over 200 branches had only 7000 active clients. Indian markets are highly inactive and I can bet that most of the brokers that you have mentioned will have less than 500 active clients. So you know how much time before they go bust, they will be burning at Rs 5 to Rs 10lks per month. The deeper the pocket the longer they might last.

But if they go bust, let me tell you my friends, you are not getting any money back from anybody, NSEL is a good case in itself. The reason we didn't have any till now is because, this model was not really there till now. RK Global was the only one running it and he has real estate business to support the brokerage business. The promoter to be precise has actually lost interest in brokerage business now.

Cost of membership has remained the same, actually dropped in case of BSE, so there are a lot of entities with no credibility entering the business. A seat on NYSE costs 20 million dollars, on NSE less than 0.3 million dollars. This figure has remained the same for the last 20 years NSE has been in business. 1.5crores to become a NSE member in 1994 was a really big amount then, 1.5 crores today hmmm there are thousands who spend that much on a car today.

This thread has entered in its 6th month & 572 posts old but still alive. Had it been so easy to give you correct single answer this thread would have been dead within couple of weeks, after 10-20 posts.

Start one thread - which one is brightest thing- answer will be candle, bulb, torch, moon, Sun. As soon as someone will answer Sun, thread will become dead.

Answer to your question must be customized for you and by yourself.

But let me share some of my knowledge. Seniors! please rectify if I'm wrong anywhere.
Answer will be like-
-Married, having kids and aging parents & single earning member of family- Bank F.D.
-Don't want to read this thread & want ready-made answer:eat:- Avoid trading & better opt for Mutual Fund.
-Has ample money to loss- Do trading without proper home work:lol:.

Now come to the point (Sorry) points-
Want to avoid anxiety, stress and want safety of money & facilities and ready for high brokerage- Opt for old Big brokerage houses.
Want to take little bit of risk and ready for little bit high (among low) brokerage- Zerodha.
Want algo trading support- Zerodha, Composite Edge.
Want good trading plateform- Zerodha, RKSV, Wisdom Capital.
Do trade rarely & low volume but want fixed monthly brokerage- Achiivers
Do hundreds of trade daily with high volume in each trade- RKSV
Do hundreds of trade daily with low volume in each trade- SAS
Do trade rarely but high volume in each trade (opt for per trade plan)- Composite Edge, TSO, SAS, WC
Have less money to invest & ready to earn big (loss big)- Wisdom Capital
Happy with RKSV but now want to avoid it - TSO
Happy with TSO but now want to avoid it - RKSV
Want to pay low per month (not lowest)- SAS, WC
Want to pay low per month (not lowest) & low transaction cost (not lowest)-SAS

What happened? Got confused? [Me too-Ha..Ha]

Like you I also came here for ready-made answer. But I got little bit of "Nirvana" :!after long "Tapasya" of reading all the posts of this thread, still little bit confused like you:console:

You do your "Tapasya" yourself and get "Nirvana" for you:rofl:

Which is best for me may not be for you and vice-verse.

Thanks for your answers in summary...I am trading in ICICIdirect just like you...I am a day trader and always look for marginal profits with 3-4 no. of trades(my capacity) per day.. But their brokerages are eating my profits which is why I am finding difficult to set profitable goals on regular basis..Hence I was looking for low brokerage provider in this thread, but then I read the comment from one of the CA who gave us the info on how the small brokerages are functioning and how they are finding difficult to survive and then they shut their business .. Recent example being VPS

 

[bpr]

@BPR CompositeEdge nse cash and future Transaction charge is 450 per crore as per their website..plz chk in yr calculator

that is not updated i guess chk their calculator that is updated

 

[bpr]

Blisscapital sent some QA to WC and shared me via PM
sharing for everybody's benefit and for my reference later.

I want to know a few points
1) a) How safe is the money with a discount broker like you? What happens in case of a default by the broker?
b) What is your link with Alice Blue? Are you subbroker or Authorised Person, if yes, what is SEBI registration number?
1. a.Money is always safe with all the Brokers/Sub Brokers/AP in India. All being regulated by SEBI and respective Exchanges. Clients money remains in client pool strictly in constent vigil of SEBI. No Broker or Subbroker could be able to misuse this fund. There is no such instance that a broker has ran away with clients money. Such things are just propaganda spreading by other reputed brokers. More over there are having an insurance of 10 Lakh for each account by SEBI.
b. WC is a discount arm of AliceBlue Commodities Pvt Ltd, which is a registered Broker in exchanges and SEBI.
2) What software you provide for trading? Any software charges?
Nest is being provided free of cost.
3) I already have account with zerodha, how is your firm better than zerodha?
We are better than your mentioned Broker, as we are offering almost 50% lesser Turnover costs. We are also offering Fixed Monthly Brokerage of 999/- pm without any hidden charges. Needless to say you could trade with us all segments i.e. equities and commodities with a single ledger.
4) do you run any thread like zerodha does in traderji or other forum?
Not yet but have plan to do so in near future.
5) May I know about the promoters of your company?
Mrs Sudeshna Mukherjee and Mr Pralay Shankar Chakraborty are Promotors/Directors among others.
6) I have demat account with IIFL. I just want to do intraday and futures with you so just want to open trading account. What documents will be required to just open trading account?
Check Instruction for this in our Download section
7) Do you do proprietary trading?
No
8) a)What is the RMS system, when do you square off for intraday trades. How much margin you require for nifty overnight holding?
b) What happens if there is a gap up/down opening and shortfall in margins. Do you give time to clients to put margin or your system squares off the trade?
a)NSE MIS positions gets squarred off @ 3.15 pm for MCX it is 11.30 pm. Same as it is by Zerodha.
b) Yes
9) (a) Which banks are directly linked for fund transfer?
(b) any charges for depositing money or withdrawal?
All Banks available in India
(b) Through Backoffice via ATOM it cost Rs 9 + tax each transaction. Through NEST its free. Withdrawal is always free.
10) a) Do you give profit and loss statement for tax purposes (capital gain/loss report) for each financial year from backoffice?
b) And do you give total turnover as required by tax authorities (total of profit+loss, for example I make make a profit of Rs 100 and a loss of Rs 150, so my total turnover will be 250) for each segment? I mean do you give trade details of each and every trade in profit loss statement?
c) Does your BackOffice open in Chrome?
10) a) We are working on it. Yes it could be provided.
b) Partially yes.
c) No only in IE.
11) What is your transaction/turnover charges and stamp duty (My residence proof in Assam and Delhi)
Stamp duty is statewise, in your case it could be considered whichever is lesser.
12) If I open account and trade both in zerodha and with you will the softwares create problem in running together?
No. Software could be installed in different drives
13) Will you waive off account opening fee as I am a zerodha trading member?
Sir Account opening charges is only 100 Rs + tax with us. That to we are not asking for advance check it will be debited after account activation.
14) If i am not at terminal and want to place order by phone, what is the method? and is there any extra charges for placing order on phone?
What is your call and trade charges? How many lines / numbers you have ? and how many terminals for call & trade?
Call and trade Nos will be given to you. Total three Nos will be provided to you for this purpose exclusively. Rs 20/- per executed order would be charged for this.
15) Are you offering commodity also?
Yes we are offering commodity also
16) Do you have cover order facility?
Yes we do have cover order facility.
17) For associates, is there any limit for withdrawing the referral bonus earned?
For associates, there is no limit but it would be credited in their account by 3rd of each month
18) SL-M orders available or not? Market orders available or not, esp for option buy and sell?
SL-M orders available .
19) How can we change the brokerage plan? Eg from from lucky seven to freedom plan?
You could change plan once in Month through email.
20) Demat account charges? Can we lock our demat for offline transfers?
You could link your existing DP. There are no charges for this.

 

[Anirban Dharitiputra]

Money is always safe with all the Brokers/Sub Brokers/AP in India. All being regulated by SEBI and respective Exchanges. Clients money remains in client pool strictly in constent vigil of SEBI. No Broker or Subbroker could be able to misuse this fund. There is no such instance that a broker has ran away with clients money. Such things are just propaganda spreading by other reputed brokers. More over there are having an insurance of 10 Lakh for each account by SEBI.

Well said sir !!!

I have gone through entire thread and after a certain point this thread has lost its credibility due to spamming which otherwise could have been an excellent reference for others. This comparison is meaning-less without inclusion of Wisdom Capital. What are the advantages of 20X Exposures in Futures, 30X limit in Equities or even 3X limit in options and single ledger for all segments/SL Market Order/CO or even with free Trading Systems/Live data feeds, Only an active trader could understand

What is the use including Procon Capital who doesn't have started Equities trading ? If it is for Commodity Trading than why not Wisdom Capital who has lesser Transaction charges than Others? Ain't it funny just because somebody has questioned their authenticity later has been banned or still active with other ids here.

Sorry, but I have my own membership in NSE for my own trading as the trading/investing capital is above crores. This ticket is meant for personal use and not for commercialization. So please don't consider me as as an insider of any Broker available in the market.

Big investors never go to discount Brokers or traditional Brokers instead they own their own trading firm it costs lesser amount than that of owning a Jaguar or Ferrari.

Sorry if I have written something wrong. I wont be commenting in this thread either.

 

[blisscapital]

I had a chat with compositeedge customer care online chat but the person is not very competent, like informed me of old transaction charges rather than giving me the revised charges, in comparision TSO customer care is very good. The chat as well as email queries we nicely answered by TSO.

 

[akhill]

Thanks for your answers in summary...I am trading in ICICIdirect just like you...I am a day trader and always look for marginal profits with 3-4 no. of trades(my capacity) per day.. But their brokerages are eating my profits which is why I am finding difficult to set profitable goals on regular basis..Hence I was looking for low brokerage provider in this thread, but then I read the comment from one of the CA who gave us the info on how the small brokerages are functioning and how they are finding difficult to survive and then they shut their business .. Recent example being VPS

can you please let us know what your CA explained about discount broker functionality (if you don't have an issue). so that we will also be aware and cautious.

 

[LondonVisitor]

Can some one post summary of entire discussion ?

I am having account with sharekhan, can I go for Zerodha or stick to sharekhan only.

I too have Sharekhan and decided to open another account. I am using Deutsche Bank as DP with Sharekhan as broker. This was not a good combination as Deutsche Bank was not passing on DP shares for margin at Sharekhan for day trading. In addition, the brokerage is high 0.04% for Rs 18000 advance payment. Other issue with Sharekhan, my payin requests from Deutsche Bank takes at least one day to be credited in my account.

I filled in online form with Zerodha and was ready to visit them in their Bangalore office with the form and cheque and show originals. Fell sick for a week and couldn't go to Zerodha office. Printed forms of Zerodha are still lying in my bag.

In the mean time, I found one more broker again in Bangalore - Composite Investments Pvt Ltd. Filled their online form. They called me and sent me their office assistant with all forms filled. Account opened in 24 hours after I signed the form.

Payin through Composite backoffice or Online bank is almost instantaneous and took a maximum of an hour. Their customer service is very responsive by emails. Brokerage at Rs 18 per trade. For the Rs 18000 I paid to Sharekhan, I could have done more than 1000 trades in Composite. So going well so far, about 1 month.

Composite provides NOW and NEST. I don't have Windows machine and hence cannot download and install NEST. Happy with NOW, which works on my mobile and on web browser. There is a beautiful Mobile App designed for Google Chrome and Safari, which works in Desktop too - http://app.mobile.nowonline.in I really love this App. Haven't tried NEST as no NEST download available for Apple iMac.

I am still thinking if I will open Zerodha account one day, mainly for the CO order type. Composite supports only NRML and MIS orders through NOW. Sharekhan (web application) supports NRML only. Again, I don't have Sharekhan client downloaded as no version available for Apple iMac. Sharekhan's mobile App does not work on Blackberry Z10 or Playbook (or any Blackberry 10 series).

 

[LondonVisitor]

I had a chat with compositeedge customer care online chat but the person is not very competent, like informed me of old transaction charges rather than giving me the revised charges, in comparision TSO customer care is very good. The chat as well as email queries we nicely answered by TSO.

Never tried Composite on chat. Only on email and occasionally on phone, both were good.

Here are the charges for Cash and FnO. Tried image upload but failed.
For Rs.9818 of Cash in 1 trade, Txn 0.37, STT 10.00, Stamp 1 and total of 12.66. Don't understand why their Rs.18 brokerage is missing here.
For, 17.43 lakhs of FnO in 5 trades, Txn charges 66.24, STT 50.00, Stamp duty 50.00, SEBI 1.74, Brokerage 81.86 and a grand total of Rs.268.15.

 

[blisscapital]

I have asked several times over mail to aliceblue regarding their relation with Wisdom Capital but they never reply directly (seems they do not want to give in writing) and always asks my phone number, address and say they will clear doubt over phone. Why cant they just reply what is their relation with Wisdom Capital! All other discount brokers have replied to queries on email in writing.