General Trading Chat

[TracerBullet]

TracerBullet,,
no obsession for 2008, as a whole bull market last 7 and half years.. Bear market only one and half max.. u can easily exclude the bear phase in such calculation and include a bull phase in 5 years data.. dats cheating ..simple..
no one want to include the bear phase..no one want to consider 2004-2008 five years data.. . If fundamentalist want to include 2003 bull run but exclude 2008 fall.. that is cheating.. U CAN NEVER TIME MARKET WHILE INVESTING...CATCH BOTTOM AND TOP..

I do not get what you are trying to say. Who is excluding bear markets? You can look at 10 year returns, you can look at individual year returns.

I am not talking of Indian ETF.. I was talking on world wide report on mutual fund since launch of various Commodity based ETFs..Gold, Crude, Silver..,, In the May 2005 issue of Futures magazine where Jim Rogers explained it all.. why mutual fund will face the heat... he had predicted the 2008 fall there also..

U can make good money too if invest Nifty etfs (use SIP) when PE below 20.. Start pulling out money when over 22(SIP).. simple..IMO

Again, didn't understand. Commodities is different from equity. Yes we had 2008 fall, so what? We had fall in 2000 too. If you feel we are in bubble now, then reduce equity.

We can also make good money by simply staying put. You can reduce when we are in crazy bubble territory ( maybe hard to do ) and increase when market capitulates ( easier to do for me, fun ). If for you bubble is PE 22, then its ok - reduce it. If and when earnings improve, PE will reduce and you can add more, although market generally tries to guess before it happens.

 

[headstrong007]

I do not get what you are trying to say. Who is excluding bear markets? You can look at 10 year returns, you can look at individual year returns.

Simple nothing to understand.. take 10 yers return.. include a bear market too. don't calculate 5years.. only including a bull market excluding a bear market is nonsense.. dont calculate return of 2003-2007 like u said.. or like prev link of motilal 2009-2014..
Investors don't able to catch top bottom in long term charts like those misleading reports.. thats all I want to say..

Investors don't differentiate commodity/equity/property.. they try to find best possible way for long term investing... commodity etfs damages the world wide equity based mutual fund business..since launched..thats top traders and fund managers said... no me..

 

[vijayanscbe]

Not 5 years but 6 years and 2009 start to 2014end..stocks return calculated from nifty 3000 to 8500 journey. Fooling investor... Actually modern investors are not so idiots now...with internet they can find the truth easily... so mutual fund industries is struggling world wide after launch of various ETFs...and this is known research report since 2008..any one can search google to find the truth..
No mutual fund ever calculated a report from 2008 start... 5 yrs or 6 years... even at 2017 no one will see any calculation from TOP.. 2008 start

Actual fact is investors loose whenever invest over 21-22 PE in Nifty..even with SIP. Any Good fundamentalist know that..but they will not tell you the truth..

So be careful...

All such 5 years return calculate from lowest point including a bull market.. but excluding the quick and fast bear market fall.. It is easy to fool people with such data.. bcoz..
bear market only takes only 1and half year max to wipe out 8 years profit,, longer bull cycle... Thats proven fact from fun da mental ist..

Dont you feel the Irony in your post.

you are criticizing the gimmicks of the advertisement, of-coarse gimmicks are part their (Ads) profession.
But why are you mocking the investors/fundamentalist.

Technicalyst and fundamentalist are in different boats, you ,here mocking the fundamentalist,
But there, :lol: :lol:

"If fundamentals are intact, then there is no need to worry about the price, it will eventually hit its actual worth.

And technical analysis has (unfortunately) proven to be of no help in long term investing. In short term, a skilled trader can make money by betting on the herd behavior, I don't even look at charts of stock which I am going to buy for long term anymore. its of no use.

and yes, if you thing I am wrong and you can make entry using trend and stuff then you'll need to be careful as a value investor. a stock bought at 20%, over priced, in comparison with a stock bought at 20% discount can make an enormous difference on final capital gain."

http://www.traderji.com/fundamental...tors-faith-into-investing-84.html#post1155292


Finally all is well , if they make money

 

[vagar11]

Motilal Oswal is posting their study every year.
http://www.motilaloswal.com/stock-market-research/Wealth-Creation-Study.aspx

 

[headstrong007]

Technicalyst and fundamentalist are in different boats, you ,here mocking the fundamentalist,

..when pro traders find it difficult to catch top and bottoms.. those funda mental ist mutual fund wale catching bottom 2009 to 2014 top.. from long term charts...:lol: then.. producing cheat report to attract common people using only bull market returns..

 

[headstrong007]

No further post in this topic from my side.. explained all clearly in prev posts with clear example.. not against the fundamentalist.. but fun da mental ist like motilal s who can catch top and bottom in long term chart using their fun da mental theory..:rofl:

 

[mudraatrader]

me...i missed it buying on friday...

---------------

 

[TracerBullet]

Investors don't differentiate commodity/equity/property.. they try to find best possible way for long term investing... commodity etfs damages the world wide equity based mutual fund business..since launched..thats top traders and fund managers said... no me..

Generally, investors join at the end of a rally. They look short term but think they are investing for long term. So earlier we had commodity boom years, that has deflated ...
Anyway, i dont know much about these things, but investing in individual commodity will be risky - can take it as small bet or large bet if you understand it.

Simple nothing to understand.. take 10 yers return.. include a bear market too. don't calculate 5years.. only including a bull market excluding a bear market is nonsense.. dont calculate return of 2003-2007 like u said.. or like prev link of motilal 2009-2014..
Investors don't able to catch top bottom in long term charts like those misleading reports.. thats all I want to say..

..when pro traders find it difficult to catch top and bottoms.. those funda mental ist mutual fund wale catching bottom 2009 to 2014 top.. from long term charts...:lol: then.. producing cheat report to attract common people using only bull market returns..

No further post in this topic from my side.. explained all clearly in prev posts with clear example.. not against the fundamentalist.. but fun da mental ist like motilal s who can catch top and bottom in long term chart using their fun da mental theory..:rofl:

relax and read ST's post again. Yes, people need to get familiar with Equity volatility and uncertainty over short periods ( Even short period is not definite ). But i dont think MO/MF are showing only bull market charts, maybe agents might do to get commission as always

 

[Smart_trade]

Not 5 years but 6 years and 2009 start to 2014end..stocks return calculated from nifty 3000 to 8500 journey. Fooling investor... Actually modern investors are not so idiots now...with internet they can find the truth easily... so mutual fund industries is struggling world wide after launch of various ETFs...and this is known research report since 2008..any one can search google to find the truth..

No mutual fund ever calculated a report from 2008 start... 5 yrs or 6 years... even at 2017 no one will see any calculation from TOP.. 2008 start

Actual fact is investors loose whenever invest over 21-22 PE in Nifty..even with SIP.. Any Good fundamentalist know that..but they will not tell you the truth..

So be careful...

All such 5 years return calculate from lowest point including a bull market.. but excluding the quick and fast bear market fall.. It is easy to fool people with such data.. bcoz..
bear market only takes only 1and half year max to wipe out 8 years profit,, longer bull cycle... Thats proven fact from fun da mental ist..

Motilal and othr lals.... all such cheaters would not dare to publish same report like 2009(start)-2014(end) based on 2015(start)-2020(end).. same 6years.. bcoz 2015 start is another top like 2008... fooling people over the years to time..no one ever saw any 5 yrs report from 2008 start..:lol:

Motilal Oswal published wealth creation report every year. They have done a report for 2008-2013 also ...see the below link :

http://www.motilaloswal.com/site/rreports/HTML/635227965311975586/index.htm

In this period also some stocks created wealth and the wealth creation study brings our strong research of what are the characteristics of these companies which create wealth. In the period mentioned by you there were companies producing above 20-22 % CAGR .

2015 to 2020 report will be published in 2021 so dont jump to the conlusion that wealth creation report for this period will not be published. Wait for 2021.

You have totally missed the concept of wealth creation study. In every 6 years period there are some companies creating wealth irrespective of the market downturn. The study based on financial and market data analyses and brings out some theme of wealth creation during that period. It is just analysis of facts. It is not a advertisement, invitation to subscribe to any of their services, a tips service .It is the research based on which investors have to do their work and come out with stocks which is as per the theme They dont even recommend stocks or portfolio so no one can say they are misleading and cheating the investors.


In the Wealth Creation Study they are not selling anything, not making any recommendations, not giving future targets, not asking any money,not promising any return then how are they misleading and cheating investors ?? With the same logic even NSE can be accused of cheating investors because they keep NSE open even when market goes to 21-22 PE and above ...they should close NSE to safeguard the investors....

The wealth creating stocks have given superior performance over periods when bear markets are included. Look at some of known wealth creators and see their performance over 2008-2013 or 2008-2012 or till now period yourself.

Smart_trade

 

[Smart_trade]

..when pro traders find it difficult to catch top and bottoms.. those funda mental ist mutual fund wale catching bottom 2009 to 2014 top.. from long term charts...:lol: then.. producing cheat report to attract common people using only bull market returns..

Wealth Creation study is not about catching a top and bottom. It is about how to identify wealth creators in any market,good or bad...You have read just one report and coming to wrong conclusions.See their other reports which include the bear market. See their Value PMS which started in 2003 and it has a worst bear market of 2008 in this period. Or even see performance of their NTDOP Scheme which started at the worst time ( Dec 2007 ),see its performance over 2008-2015 period.They are publishing these research reports every year.

I am not even arguing whether one should invest in growth stocks or mutual funds or not but accusation of misleading and cheating is based on wrong facts and hence uncalled for.

Smart_trade