General Trading Chat
- Thread starter timepass
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Its very difficult to beat 'the law of averages'. My guess is less than 5-10% of the traders make money in TJ and in twitter. Outside the forums, the percentage might be higher actually. 
Out side the forums... most people even don't know the difference between candlestick and line charts...People enter TJ, usually are more tech savvy, enter here to learn...
outside most people think trading is gambling...it can't be learned..poor people(in knowledge).. they don't know the market is not random. market move in trends with various range breakout... that's the time to make money...
U can't teach anyone to anything who believe trading is gambling bcoz market is always random...but any trader know the market is not always random...
outside most people think trading is gambling...it can't be learned..poor people(in knowledge).. they don't know the market is not random. market move in trends with various range breakout... that's the time to make money...
U can't teach anyone to anything who believe trading is gambling bcoz market is always random...but any trader know the market is not always random...
I also strongly believe that 'words' can only teach a person so much. Much can be learned only by 'doing' it. So, the essential part of success comes in 'doing' things.
Am not throwing stone sitting in a glass house..please dont take me wrong here. Have learned many things here in TJ and am sure i will learn more in the future as well. But, there should be limit mechanism to put our learning to use and i guess the tech-savvy people like us never cease to 'learn'. This is probably the reason behind 'system hopping'.
If i had to put a question here asking 'how long you have been trading the same system?' - we might get answers ranging from 1 day to 6 months. Very very few would say more than an year. We might find our consistent winners in that very few. Online forums/twitter contribute much to system jumping as we do not know how to stop that behavior (and it is also a factor of us being overly self-critical of our accomplishments).
The more we loiter around in forums reading how someone made 100 points in Nifty today versus we making 10 points or sitting idle, our overly-critical brain would not let us sleep in peace. Next day, we wake up and try to figure out what that 100 points guy system is..This is the biggest bane of being in online forums. This problem is not prevalent outside forums.
Have seen people hanging on the latest method in TJ for 1-2 months and slowly, they start looking for another method.
http://premium.thehindubusinessline...-hurt-banks-balance-sheets/article9727179.ece
yesterday's bullish news on PSUs banks .... is actually going to be a BAD NEWS .......
RBI identifying defaulters for insolvency can hurt banks’ balance sheets
Radhika Merwin The Business Line
Published on June 15, 2017
Banks will have to take huge haircuts if these cases go into liquidation
Mumbai, June 14: Empowered by the new NPA ordinance, the RBI on Tuesday went into fire-fighting mode, identifying 12 big defaulters for insolvency. The RBI’s Internal Advisory Council (IAC) recommending these accounts — constituting a fourth of the system’s bad loans— for immediate resolution is no doubt welcome. But given that these are large accounts and failure of a resolution plan could result in huge haircuts for banks, the plan still sounds good only on paper.
Banks may end up taking a 80-90 per cent haircut in some cases, if the company goes into liquidation (on failure of resolution), according to bankers and market players.
The process
Banks will appoint lawyers to oversee the insolvency process, who in turn will hire insolvency resolution professionals to initiate the process through an application filed with the authorities. The authority, in this case, is the National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT). The resolution professional would call upon all the creditors to submit their claims. Subsequently, the professional would assess the financials of the borrower, claims, and the amount of assets available to settle the claims.
“The resolution plan is then drafted, which could include a turnaround fund investing money in the company if there is still some potential. Or, it could be in the form of an ARC investing in the company or a strategic buyout, wherein a competitor steps in to buy the assets of the company,” says Neha Malhotra, Executive Director, Nangia & Co, a tax advisory and tax consulting firm.
On failure of the resolution plan or if majority of the creditors do not agree with the resolution, the company would go into liquidation and banks could end up recovering only a small amount.
Some bankers believe that the assets could be obsolete and not in working condition, and so the realisation would not be much. Also, given the huge supply of assets and few takers, sale may not happen that quickly.
“The assets will be sold and the realised amount will be distributed to stakeholders— liquidators and insolvency professionals (fees), secured creditors and workmen, employees, government dues, etc., in that order,” says Neha.
Also, while resolution is time-bound— 180 days with 90 days extension— liquidation could take even two to five years. The value of the underlying assets by then could come down significantly.
Hence, the success of a resolution plan (or avoiding going into liquidation) will be critical for banks, to ensure that they recover some reasonable amount from the account.
This should nudge banks to right-size their debt, says Nirmal Gangwal, Managing Director, Brescon Corporate Advisors, a corporate debt restructuring advisory firm.
In finding ready takers for businesses or selling bad loans to asset reconstruction companies, lack of concurrence of the serviceable portion of debt has impeded resolution. A time-bound approach, along with the pressure to resolve these accounts, can hasten the process this time around, adds Gangwal. The downsizing of loans could attract potential buyers for these stressed entities.
Many, however, believe that the 12 accounts being referred to for insolvency may have already gone through various restructuring schemes such as CDR, SDR or S4A.
Failure under these schemes could have nudged the RBI to refer them to the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code 2016. Hence, resolution could once again hit a roadblock, triggering the liquidation process.
More pain for banks
Banks with high levels of bad loans and weak capital may see some more pain in the coming quarters, given the high level of provisioning requirement on account of huge haircuts.
As of March 2017, IOB, IDBI Bank, Central Bank and UCO Bank have the highest levels of gross non-performing assets. IOB, for instance, has a GNPA of 22.3 per cent while IDBI Bank’s bad loans are 21 per cent of its total loans.
These banks also have a weak capital position, with Tier I capital around the 8-8.5 per cent mark. Unless the RBI offers some leeway in provisioning, such as apportioning it across several quarters, banks’ capital could weaken further.
yesterday's bullish news on PSUs banks .... is actually going to be a BAD NEWS .......
RBI identifying defaulters for insolvency can hurt banks’ balance sheets
Radhika Merwin The Business Line
Published on June 15, 2017
Banks will have to take huge haircuts if these cases go into liquidation
Mumbai, June 14: Empowered by the new NPA ordinance, the RBI on Tuesday went into fire-fighting mode, identifying 12 big defaulters for insolvency. The RBI’s Internal Advisory Council (IAC) recommending these accounts — constituting a fourth of the system’s bad loans— for immediate resolution is no doubt welcome. But given that these are large accounts and failure of a resolution plan could result in huge haircuts for banks, the plan still sounds good only on paper.
Banks may end up taking a 80-90 per cent haircut in some cases, if the company goes into liquidation (on failure of resolution), according to bankers and market players.
The process
Banks will appoint lawyers to oversee the insolvency process, who in turn will hire insolvency resolution professionals to initiate the process through an application filed with the authorities. The authority, in this case, is the National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT). The resolution professional would call upon all the creditors to submit their claims. Subsequently, the professional would assess the financials of the borrower, claims, and the amount of assets available to settle the claims.
“The resolution plan is then drafted, which could include a turnaround fund investing money in the company if there is still some potential. Or, it could be in the form of an ARC investing in the company or a strategic buyout, wherein a competitor steps in to buy the assets of the company,” says Neha Malhotra, Executive Director, Nangia & Co, a tax advisory and tax consulting firm.
On failure of the resolution plan or if majority of the creditors do not agree with the resolution, the company would go into liquidation and banks could end up recovering only a small amount.
Some bankers believe that the assets could be obsolete and not in working condition, and so the realisation would not be much. Also, given the huge supply of assets and few takers, sale may not happen that quickly.
“The assets will be sold and the realised amount will be distributed to stakeholders— liquidators and insolvency professionals (fees), secured creditors and workmen, employees, government dues, etc., in that order,” says Neha.
Also, while resolution is time-bound— 180 days with 90 days extension— liquidation could take even two to five years. The value of the underlying assets by then could come down significantly.
Hence, the success of a resolution plan (or avoiding going into liquidation) will be critical for banks, to ensure that they recover some reasonable amount from the account.
This should nudge banks to right-size their debt, says Nirmal Gangwal, Managing Director, Brescon Corporate Advisors, a corporate debt restructuring advisory firm.
In finding ready takers for businesses or selling bad loans to asset reconstruction companies, lack of concurrence of the serviceable portion of debt has impeded resolution. A time-bound approach, along with the pressure to resolve these accounts, can hasten the process this time around, adds Gangwal. The downsizing of loans could attract potential buyers for these stressed entities.
Many, however, believe that the 12 accounts being referred to for insolvency may have already gone through various restructuring schemes such as CDR, SDR or S4A.
Failure under these schemes could have nudged the RBI to refer them to the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code 2016. Hence, resolution could once again hit a roadblock, triggering the liquidation process.
More pain for banks
Banks with high levels of bad loans and weak capital may see some more pain in the coming quarters, given the high level of provisioning requirement on account of huge haircuts.
As of March 2017, IOB, IDBI Bank, Central Bank and UCO Bank have the highest levels of gross non-performing assets. IOB, for instance, has a GNPA of 22.3 per cent while IDBI Bank’s bad loans are 21 per cent of its total loans.
These banks also have a weak capital position, with Tier I capital around the 8-8.5 per cent mark. Unless the RBI offers some leeway in provisioning, such as apportioning it across several quarters, banks’ capital could weaken further.
No Wisp bro. Am not ridiculing anyone. No way.
Ridiculing others is like demeaning myself. It just shows about my character more than the person being ridiculed. I was just referring to how being in online forums can screw our thought process. Maybe, i did not communicate it well. Am sorry for that.
Ridiculing others is like demeaning myself. It just shows about my character more than the person being ridiculed. I was just referring to how being in online forums can screw our thought process. Maybe, i did not communicate it well. Am sorry for that.
Out side the forums... most people even don't know the difference between candlestick and line charts...People enter TJ, usually are more tech savvy, enter here to learn...
outside most people think trading is gambling...it can't be learned..poor people(in knowledge).. they don't know the market is not random. market move in trends with various range breakout... that's the time to make money...
U can't teach anyone to anything who believe trading is gambling bcoz market is always random...but any trader know the market is not always random...
outside most people think trading is gambling...it can't be learned..poor people(in knowledge).. they don't know the market is not random. market move in trends with various range breakout... that's the time to make money...
U can't teach anyone to anything who believe trading is gambling bcoz market is always random...but any trader know the market is not always random...
people live in different illusions in their entire life , due to different fears and lack of open mind approach .
the best of the best of the best minds do trading anonymously or openly because it challenges them and they want to see how good they are or what they can achieve with their mind and talents
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