Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[segul]

hi saint,

i was unable to understand when exactly to seek 30 min chart for pivot formation as our stop and reverse point.

in the chart red arrows are the point at which we look into 30 min chart to see the pivots

by using the pivot on 30 mins on 8/8/08 big loss could have been avoided in short position.but some unnecessary trades would have been taken on 6/8 and 26/8.

regards.

 

[vvvv]

Quick look at Europe and America.

MJ--

hi,
MJ

the NASDAQ60 chart looks like a double top failure to me..looks like it has topped out with bad looking candles.just going by the naked chart..pls let me know if it market turns bearish.
thnks for the chart.

 

[Prabhjeet]

I have been trying to stop myself from speaking it but I think we are on a wrong path. I dont know how far we can get by using these tiny miny pivots all the time. I mean Saint is an expert trader who can think when is the time to use these ultra minor pivots and when to ignore them but in this process many of new learners like us will loose perspective which is far worse a loss than financial loss.

Saint I know everyone is feeling very confident following these pivots rt. now only becoz. everyone knows you are nearby to help but think of the day when you are not around to help, it would be total chaos and I am sure that day will come sooner than later.

So I request Saint & other seniors to plz. follow our visual pivots for the sake of discipline of our fellow team members or this beautiful concept will end in an ugly outcome and that would be a real waste of precious time that Saint & others have devoted

 

[Prabhjeet]

BTW, these low vol. days that we are having are the greatest threat to any system. Have a look Dow ,its already down 100 pts. again so where do we stand now, reverse to shorts??

 

[ARMHM]

I think low volume at bottom is a good sign. Usually it indicates that selling has come to an end and the next bull phase is just in the making. Though a panic bout can not be ruled out at this time also as there is always a calmness before and after a storm.

 

[vvvv]

I have been trying to stop myself from speaking it but I think we are on a wrong path. I dont know how far we can get by using these tiny miny pivots all the time. I mean Saint is an expert trader who can think when is the time to use these ultra minor pivots and when to ignore them but in this process many of new learners like us will loose perspective which is far worse a loss than financial loss.

Saint I know everyone is feeling very confident following these pivots rt. now only becoz. everyone knows you are nearby to help but think of the day when you are not around to help, it would be total chaos and I am sure that day will come sooner than later.

So I request Saint & other seniors to plz. follow our visual pivots for the sake of discipline of our fellow team members or this beautiful concept will end in an ugly outcome and that would be a real waste of precious time that Saint & others have devoted

sum doubts:
1)wht are "tiny miny pivots" & wht are ultra minor pivots"???
2)wht was the moral of your thread.
3)your 1st paragraph was difficult to understand.."the tiny miny thing"..wht kind of perpective u loose & wht u gain....
4)your 2nd para ---- where is saint going man...is he goin to the himalayas to take sanyas from the stock markets..i doubt ..
4)your 3rd para --- went above my head..

 

[vvvv]

Hazarding that my post may be construed as a critisism, believe me its not!!!
Prabhjeet, can you explain how do you differentiate between a Pivot and a Visual pivot , tiny miny pivot!!! Rather can you describe a pivot... Do we accept it that when we talk of Pivot it shall have to be as per Saints Hand Analogy!!! Can you descriibe a Pivot in a lay mans language!!!
At least comprise of 5 bars, with the middle bar either highest or lowest!!
If possible can you post a few charts where you feel the trade was taken totally out of context of the Pivot rules!!
Yes I have had a few doubts myself and try to project them and Saint has been kind enough to bear my questions and Post the clarifications!!! ANd still have a few left and trying to find a clarification!!!
Prabhjeet, to me your post seems as if out of frustration, the language seemd so (I am sorry if my view is incorrect) but please be patient and let us try to our bit to make the rules simpler!!! Can you post a random months chart with the trades as per your understanding of the rules!!! And maybe add as notes, why a trade has been taken!!!
Just see, Saint has himself written that a few tweaks have been done to rules as the thread progressed , all due to the feed back or doubts or suggestions of the people following the thread!!
For ABAN, Saint says he has to sit and Reanalyse atleast an years data to see how it can be tweaked a bit to make it more effective!!!
If Saint still needs these, maybe "needs" is not the right word, If Saint himself "feels" this need for minor adjustments in rules etc. after following his system successfully for so long, well westill have a long way to go...
(Random thoughts put in just as they came to my mind, may be not much relevent and may have been written haphazardly)Note: Though the post is addressed to Prabhjeet, it is for any one and all having similar feelings!!!

i think he thought tht pivots are ready made cookbook indicators with which u can make a lot of money & becum rich...now he has cum to know tht it is not the reality......reality is truth which will always be bitter.
1 thing i wanted to ask u ....wht are the tweaks & how it is applied.wud be appreciated if point wise u can write it down.
thnks

 

[Saint]

i think he thought tht pivots are ready made cookbook indicators with which u can make a lot of money & becum rich...now he has cum to know tht it is not the reality......reality is truth which will always be bitter.
1 thing i wanted to ask u ....wht are the tweaks & how it is applied.wud be appreciated if point wise u can write it down.
thnks

whoa,let's go easy with each other here.........a set of great individuals,all of you.I am honoured to have met a spirited bunch,hats off to each and every one with the thirst and desire to continuously keep improving.But in the trying to iron things out,let's not hurt one another in the process.

These words---tweaks--- are basically nothing.Probably my style of writing I guess.As a rule,I would buy the previous pivot high on the 60 and ride it.My stops are at the previous pivot low.Now there are those vertical moves----like today's---where price does not pivot.But on the 30min charts,it does.......So for everything,I would follow the 60,but when I get a vertical move,I have a look at the 30 as well.And raise my pivots accordingly.I call that a tweak.

So some of us who follow this method---the purists---,they are rigid in their following of the pivots on the 60 and none else.Prabhjeet is one of them.He has a great eye,but adamant to stick to the method in its pure form.He is not wrong either.And neither am I........I obey the same rules,but find that when price reaches 4375,and my stop is at 4175,that is too much of a gulf between the two.So,I find it comfortable to play with the 30min tweak as well.Important to note that I do not follow the 30min pivots,for then I would have called this thread the "30min Flow" thread.It's the 60 all the way except when we get the vertical move up/down.

What other tweaks to the method?Right,we have a gap up in an uptrend and we are already long the trade.We wait for the first bar to form and above our filter zone,we add again.

We used to add at every pivot break........recently,tweaked it to only 4 positions on NF max,unless there is a consolidation phase in between.Afer 3 adds to the initial position,we do nothing but manage risk.

Basically,a tweak is defined as a minor adjustment made in order to increase our profits or lessen our risks,or increase our batting average.

And don't go around quoting some dictionary on me .......Just sharing some lingo from my own dictionary.

Saint

 

[Saint]

BTW, these low vol. days that we are having are the greatest threat to any system. Have a look Dow ,its already down 100 pts. again so where do we stand now, reverse to shorts??

We stick to our Plan as always,my friend.

Saint

 

[Saint]

hi saint,

i was unable to understand when exactly to seek 30 min chart for pivot formation as our stop and reverse point.

in the chart red arrows are the point at which we look into 30 min chart to see the pivots

by using the pivot on 30 mins on 8/8/08 big loss could have been avoided in short position.but some unnecessary trades would have been taken on 6/8 and 26/8.

regards.

Hi Segul,

As said in the previous post to vvvv,plz do not misunderstand that every 30min pivot is to be traded.........all pivots as of the 60,except when we get vertical moves.

First red arrow:On the 60min,we have a strong move the previous day,and then a gap up.Move your stops to the low of 2 bars back ie 4471-15=4456
If the gap up,runs off,we are adding......if the gap up falls,it has to take out 4456.It falls and ends the day at 4527.Nothing to be done,another day at the office,no looking at 30min and all that.

Next day,we have a higher pivot low .......but entry and Rs17 later,price slam dunks.Our price reversal stands t 4517,price reaches 4517.35,but not triggerred,we are still long........no looking at the 30min so far.Next day,price takes out the 4517,and we are short the market(Okay,I see a question coming up,one that I have already replied to the day I left overseas......but would rather answer it after being asked Now that we are short,we have a move down with no clear cut pivots......now we open up our 30min charts........and we have lower pivot highs and then a break of a previous pivot high at 4529.Long now with filter.

On the 26th,we have a gap down and a rally,not violating our pivots on the 60,or stops..........we are short from 4382 on 21st.A gap up and the first bar high was not violated.We are still short,then a gap down and rally,still not taking out our pivots or stops,and then the fall.So no looking at the 30min charts.

If doubts persist,will go over them again..........broadly speaking,only refer to the 30 when things get hazy on the 60.....for example,we have a gap up move.And a vertical move,towards the end of the day,multiple bottoming tails and topping tails.Not a clear cut pivot though,so we look at the 30min charts and voila,we have a neat pivot there.........yes,probably,may lead up to some worthless entries and exits at times.But there are other times,when you wish you had this one in your weaponry.

Saint