Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[KomaL2099]

Hi
Can you please tell how did u reach figure of 4553 ..???
Thanks

I think 4560 ie 4553+7

 

[senty]

Hi
Can you please tell how did u reach figure of 4553 ..???
Thanks

4553 is yesterday's PH...

 

[rkkarnani]

R K Karnani,

I believe it's neither about confusion nor rule deviation.

As taught by Saint, keeping the "I" factor out of one's mind is same as learning to deal with emotions like fear and greed, both of which lead to severe financial/personal punishment at the end of the day.

I'd b a pretender if I said there is no anxiety on gap up days, seeing my position deep in the money but not fighting back the urge to take my money and run. That's part of human nature and cannot be denied it's place.
The converse being true on gap down mornings, running deep loss, yet praying fervently for a reversal without an action plan.

So there are well tried and tested rules that equip us with the fight back when the markets get challenging. I'm sure you'll agree that since trading these rules one sleeps well, without anxiety of what the morning will bring, nor sitting up late night watching how the Dow is doing.

No, I don't believe you caused confusion. From what I can see most everyone here by now knows what they are doing.
But as learners, or re-leaners struggling to kick bad habits, you may have inadvertently touched some old scars caused by not trading a determind plan and surrendering to a bad habit.
It's like blowing smoke at someone agonising over kicking smoking. It's disruptive.
Having done so, don't be too burdened by it. That's what the market does, just when you think it's all sitting pretty. A few days ago another senior at the forum did the same.

This is learning still, and what's important is to learn to protect ourselves from the self, rather than the market.

I've been seeing your posts regularly, and there's lots of spirit there. Keep going.

And then, of course, Saint's around. Furthermore, he's gentle, and Czar would affirm that, I wager.

Amit.

Thanks Amit for the Post!! Believe me, The 'I' is totally out, rather almost totally out of my trades!!! The 'dissenting' posts that you have seen ( a few were deleted by me) were mainly becoz that was the rule i was following when I tested the Historical data and with those rules i found them to be working fine so I started trading on paper and then actual!!! Saint gradually clarified as and when someone posted his doubts!!! To name a few : Exit on derivative close , was changed to rollover, filter or room was changed to 15 from 10.... the Gap rule was not fully understood by many here including me, so i continued to trade the gap the way it was understood by me!! With the guidance of Saint in place , my strength was my bar by bar back testing (though have been told that the back testing is considered out dated in todays TA scenario) and also 2 months real time testing.
So i still continue to trade per my rules which are written down and as per which the back testing done!!!
Yesterday's action was definetly a deviation from my own rules, (and for this action of mine i wrote above that the 'I' is almost totally out of my trades)the xit was in opening 5 minutes bar, which i never do, but the reversal to short was per my rules of gap trade!!!
Amit I trust you will appreciate that just becoz i am not following Saints rules does not mean i trade with an 'I' in my trades!!! That is not the case!! Have been trading Nifty for almost 2 years now and am proud to say that have been able to to trade 98% of the times without 'I'.
I agree that the rules by Saint are time tested but with risk reward in place i think my action wasnt brash, having said i unhesitanty agree to your observation :
But as learners, or re-leaners struggling to kick bad habits, you may have inadvertently touched some old scars caused by not trading a determind plan and surrendering to a bad habit.
It's like blowing smoke at someone agonising over kicking smoking. It's disruptive.

And last but not the least , thanks for the encouraging words!!
Regards
-R K Karnani

 

[lvgandhi]

Hi
Can you please tell how did u reach figure of 4553 ..???
Thanks

PH on 8/9/8 at 14:00

 

[Smart_trade]

Saint, got your point, shall desist from posting any deviating trades here!!!
Thanx for pointing it out!!!
But Saint, Beware that I shall surely post here to pester you as in the past, in case some trade levels or Sl levels posted here are not understood by me and feel are not as per the rules understood by me!!!
I had specifically posted that it is a deviation of rules.... so there should not have been any confusion!!

And I am thankful that you did not take my posts as to belittle you!!! Its beyond imagination that i should even think of 'one upmanship over Saint'!!!

Yes, some portion of the Post above by you would have hurt me had it been from someone other than you!!! Just becoz i know you , I understand that all has been written by you with the view to keep the interest of all in mind, for the general good at heart as always!!!!
So
Your advise taken and assure you no feelings hurt!!! Thanx again Saint!!!
Regards
R K Karnani

Your posts are well meaning RK but they are likely to teach wrong principles to the traders learning from this thread. Your trades of liquidating your long position and going short yesterday may be great discretionary trades but they are not in the boundries of the system we are following.You may also be making more money by adding your discretion to the system but we all have done these thing in past and after we are convinced that we are not able to call the market consistantly we have come to system trading. A great discretionary trader does much better than a systems trader but are we so blessed ? I seriously doubt my own abilities to call the mkt correctly every time.

Following the syst if we are making good returns why tweak the system for some more nifty points ? It is better to practice the system perfectly and increase the qty so if I am trading 100 nifty in every adds once I get confidence,Would like to trade 1000 nifty(of course with my trading capital permitting and step by step increase) and increase my money made that way rather than making a few points on a small position of 50 or 100 nifty.The new guys will think that cheating on the system is a way to make extra buck and that is really dangerous.

We all want you to post in this thread as a most respected trader friend but please keep the contradictory trades out RK, I am sure you will understand every ones concern ....

Best Wishes,Trade well !!!

Smart_trade

 

[man4urheart]

Team I think again we are diverting from original topic and discussing other things too much in thread!

 

[AMITBE]

Thanks Amit for the Post!! Believe me, The 'I' is totally out, rather almost totally out of my trades!!! The 'dissenting' posts that you have seen ( a few were deleted by me) were mainly becoz that was the rule i was following when I tested the Historical data and with those rules i found them to be working fine so I started trading on paper and then actual!!! Saint gradually clarified as and when someone posted his doubts!!! To name a few : Exit on derivative close , was changed to rollover, filter or room was changed to 15 from 10.... the Gap rule was not fully understood by many here including me, so i continued to trade the gap the way it was understood by me!! With the guidance of Saint in place , my strength was my bar by bar back testing (though have been told that the back testing is considered out dated in todays TA scenario) and also 2 months real time testing.
So i still continue to trade per my rules which are written down and as per which the back testing done!!!
Yesterday's action was definetly a deviation from my own rules, (and for this action of mine i wrote above that the 'I' is almost totally out of my trades)the xit was in opening 5 minutes bar, which i never do, but the reversal to short was per my rules of gap trade!!!
Amit I trust you will appreciate that just becoz i am not following Saints rules does not mean i trade with an 'I' in my trades!!! That is not the case!! Have been trading Nifty for almost 2 years now and am proud to say that have been able to to trade 98% of the times without 'I'.
I agree that the rules by Saint are time tested but with risk reward in place i think my action wasnt brash, having said i unhesitanty agree to your observation :
But as learners, or re-leaners struggling to kick bad habits, you may have inadvertently touched some old scars caused by not trading a determind plan and surrendering to a bad habit.
It's like blowing smoke at someone agonising over kicking smoking. It's disruptive.

And last but not the least , thanks for the encouraging words!!
Regards
-R K Karnani

Hi RK, thanks for clarifying your position and understood.
I must also admit I am very impressed by the fact that the "I" has mere bare traces left in your trading. I have rarely come across such a trader.

I had mainly reacted to your post from yesterday:

My personal view :
Beware : Itis deviation from existing rules :

As the trade was in good profit , I exited today in the first 5 minutes, and have given placed order to go long again above the 5 minutes high plus room.

I exited at 4548.80 and shall go long again at high plus room...

I may loose on money but saved from anxiety which was building due to keeping so much on the table!!!

We go with rules in order to combat anxiety and temptations, and to trade correctly. Short/long first bar on gap up is an old metod, and in the long run, I would think it takes more than gives.

Anyhow, as long as you know in your heart the intent behind that trade, it's ok. As Saint had replied yesterday, you have to do what you have to do, and that the market teaches us against second guessing it.

And this is said in utmost sincerity: Do calm down and listen to feedback. It comes from people who mean you well...no...the very best.

Amit.

 

[Smart_trade]

You may term me a 'discreationary' trader, but i am not!!! Is my post not clear enough that i follow my rules!!!! I feel your post was not at all required after the similar posts by Saint and Amit and my replies to them!!! Is my explanation not enough as to why the contra trades were posted!!! Do i need to reply to all who raise this point!!! I have already made it clear that I shall no longer post contra trades!!! The matter should end here!!!

And I am sure you are wrong when you say that a discreationary trader does much better than a system trader!!!!Never!! A system trader shall always score over a discretionary trader in the long run!!!

The indiscretion was not in my trade it was my posting it here in this thread that was certainly an act of indiscretion!!!!

Ah... You dont seem to have taken my post in right spirit RK .You keep on saying that these are your rules written down by you but then that is precisely the reason Saint has adviced you to start a fresh thread on your systems but dont obstruct the flow in this thread by adding trades taken on your own system(which no one here knows or cares anyway )which are contradictory to the system being taught here.Nobody is satisfied or convinced by your explanation of why you took the contra trades ,only explanation is you wanted to grab the profits and for us your greed overtook the system (that impression we got as we do not know your written /unwritten rules.) Even assuming that your trade was right as per your own trade rules,there was no need to post in this thread as it was taken against the principles being learnt here .(of letting the profits run,not grab it !!!)As per the rules of this thread your trade was wrong ,period!!! Post your private trades in a separate thread.We are in the market for sufficiently long time to understand such explanations.Dont glorify wrong trades by giving your own logic and reasoning we have seen enough of these !!!

Regarding your judgement on my view that the really expert discretionary trader does much better than the pure systems trader ,I will not waste my time but you have not seen really successful big discretionary traders RK ,I have the fortune of witnessing 1-2 traders from this class and believe me none of our systems can match them.Their mind is their system ,But that besides the point.

Sorry for the harsh words my friend,but many in this thread have these feelings so mend your ways.If you are hurt by my words,I say I am sorry.

I thought you will take the post in right spirit but I guess I am wrong ,you may keep doing what you like and deem fit .



Best Wishes,Trade Well !!!

Smart_trade

 

[Smart_trade]

Let us make peace RK ,a white flag from my side and a warm hand shake !!!No more angry no ?Common lets concentrate on our trades because that is what is important to both of us !!!

I posted my second post as Amit's post came when I was writing the post and hence not seen it sorry for that.

Trade Well,My good wishes,

Your friend,

Smart _trade

 

[chiruvyapari]

Amit tell me honestly, do i still need to clarify my stand even after I have posted my replies to Saint and you!!!! ????????????????
The posts are not feed backs... they are reactions... i would take them in my stride had the same been posted before Saint and u posted and not after my responce!!! Now anything written in this regard has to be either out of ignorence or mischief!!! It cannot be termed as a feedback atleast not by me!!
Regards
R K Karnani
ps.: Thanx for the compliments!!!!

hello friend,

we all know what you are and saw how you have responded to saint, amitbe and even to samfisher(which you have forgot to mention). you just got irritated by the continuous flow of posts. I don't think smart trade wanted to insult you or offend you either. please keep your cool and continue with your good work.