Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[Sec 5 (Pyr)]

Saint, could you have another look at the gaps on:

Dec 12 2006 - almost the same situation as Jan4, but if I'm understanding you right, you would've reversed on Dec12th but not Jan4th(assuming the SL hit). Why?

May 11 2007 - We're long and it's a gap down below the PL, not sure why that's on the list

Mar 12 2008 - Just confirming that we WOULDN'T have take that as a reversal, right? Due to the gap up, 5 min bar bullish pattern?

Also, a basic confirmation on the rules, (1) are we looking for a prolonged move up or just a nice upmove on the previous day(vice versa for shorting)?
(2) And does upmove just mean in terms of open and close of the previous day or do we have to look for the 4bars up/2WRBs formation?

PS: This isn't just addressed to Saint, anyone with 2 cents please pitch in.

 

[no1lives4ever]

One thing about this method is that we do a stop and reverse, so by having our reversal points at incorrect positions, we end up loosing a lot of points on both legs of the trade.

How about defining a prolonged uptrend as one where we are in the flow with all the adds or maybe > 75% of the max number of adds, as that is the kind of place, where leaving things on the table affects our overall system performance the worst way.

Whipsaws with initial position are kinda ok and would be natural over time, but when you get whipsawed with the full position and then you end up getting back into the trade with only the initial position due to the wrong reversal points or taking a reversal point after a leaving a big chunk of profits on the table are 2 cases where the overall effectiveness of the trade gets hit big time..

For those of you who do not have past data, go through intraday data posted by soumya_b. Available here http://www. 4 s h a r e d . c o m / d i r /1945306/b41e3d61/Intraday_Future_data.html

This has data from feb 2007, soumya had also posted intraday consolidated data till around may/jun 2007 in ascii format on 4shared. You can get the same from here: http://www. 4 s h a r e d .com/dir/2359198/6625d0b2/Database.html

 

[niftychance]

Dear Rakesh -
In the compilation which Komal has brought out, it does mention that Gaps do get taken care if intra day is also traded alongside..... to a large extent...
So if trading intra alongside , we were short right below the first bar .... all the way.

For those not trading intra but only the 60 mins, todays fall through the first bar should have been taken specially after a rally of couple of days.

Here's how I look at it playing Gaps -- I keep looking for pivot formations. As soon I have a pivot in place , I genuinely feel happy , because we know and are confident that if the pivot is taken out we are game..... Now the problem of Gap --- In case we have 'Visual', 'Monster' Gap in our View....(we are long , Uptrend - Up Gap), this is where the tricky part is.... considering Uptrend - If visual / Monster Gap Up ,--- By and large I am giving 2 cases (there are many more which I am leaving out ) ---- (Case 1) 1st bar forms, 2nd bar takes the high , my S/L is below the first bar low If that gets taken out we would have any ways formed a higher pivot and I am happy. (Case 2) 1st bar forms, 2nd bar takes the low - Do we get out or No ----- Here is where I have a feeling that it will be very difficult for 2 people to come to same conclusion because of the subjectivity of the matter. IN my case -- I take the SAR.......... and my S/L at high of first bar - again waiting for pivot formation . I am ready to take the additional risk of getting whipsawed till a clear pivot formation happens.....

------------------

My take is that this is a subjective matter (trading itself is)... We have Saint Sir's rules to follow the MArkets.... But let us not forget that the Markets are not following our rules...... Markets are markets. They are dynamic. and they will do what they do best -- throw various surprises - which we have to humbly accept and move on - However the only weapon we have is rules. So we follow rules. However can everyone react the same way to the same situation everytime. Unfortunately no.

Just wanted to bring example of Rainbow ---
Do two people ever see the same rainbow? No. As the eyes of two people cannot occupy the same place in space at the same time, each observer sees a different rainbow. Why? Well, because the raindrops are constantly in motion so its appearance is always changing. Each time you see a rainbow, it is unique in its own spectacular way! --

Same analogy can be applied to our emotions, trading behaviour, risk tolerance, patience, leaving profits on the table ability, cutting losses again and again and again, not giving up AND ..... on seeing Gaps.....

Just my 2 cents. It's just that I am comfy using this logic. And I stick to it no matter what.... And another thing to remember is that as long as we are with the flow ---- we are fine. Gaps whipsaws which happens are pennies..... Focussing on the Flow and the pounds is where the real power of pivots which keeps us in the flow.

But yes I need to also tame the Gap Monster or the Monster Gap as Saint Sir has explained couple of posts back ......


Phew - Tired. Ramblings of a happy man from todays trade though. New Day tomorrow. Happy trading.

- Inspire.

Hello Inspire

Great Post ...

Just 1 thing to add to all that you have said above, and who else would be better to quote ...

This breakdown is a place to add,....a place to reenter.....a place to initiate fresh shorts,etc......

Don't remain helpless and watch on the sidelines as market dumps.

Saint

We did take the miniflow short, but also watched the 60Min Flow SL (250 Points away from opening prices) being taken out ...

Thanks

 

[Smart_trade]

Excellent posts by inspire,and Saints posts on gaps,I have a practical solution as under :

We have an uptrend for 2-3 days,last day showing thrust in Higher top,higher bottom formation ,next day market opens with a visual gap,and 5 min high taken out,great, we are riding the uptrend.

But if 5 min low is cracked,there is a possibility of exhaustion gap and we should reverse.We may get stopped out couple of times but it will be a small SL of 40-50 points,and since we have a large upmove already in our pockets,we can practically afford a couple of stops getting hit,but more often than not we will catch the exhaustion gap and go short from 40 points below the swing high,is n't that a great entry ?

Smart_trade

 

[bandlab2]

Dear seniors,

I a following this thread closely, i want to start trading this strategy. but i am struck ith charts. where/how will i get horly charts from internet ? any site where i ca get charts ? i trade with 5paisa terminal, they give charts only for intraday, but not historical charts.

any help will be greatly appreciated. right now i am not there yet to buy metastock and rt data

 

[chiruvyapari]

Dear seniors,

I a following this thread closely, i want to start trading this strategy. but i am struck ith charts. where/how will i get horly charts from internet ? any site where i ca get charts ? i trade with 5paisa terminal, they give charts only for intraday, but not historical charts.

any help will be greatly appreciated. right now i am not there yet to buy metastock and rt data

iCharts.in &or Investbulls


happy trading

 

[beethoven]

Singapore NF - 92 pts down, USA, Europe, Asia Pacific --- entire world in sea of red. Gloomy

But we are short here. Enjoy this small happiness. Happy trading, friends

Bee

 

[faith]

One thing about this method is that we do a stop and reverse, so by having our reversal points at incorrect positions, we end up loosing a lot of points on both legs of the trade.

How about defining a prolonged uptrend as one where we are in the flow with all the adds or maybe > 75% of the max number of adds, as that is the kind of place, where leaving things on the table affects our overall system performance the worst way.

Whipsaws with initial position are kinda ok and would be natural over time, but when you get whipsawed with the full position and then you end up getting back into the trade with only the initial position due to the wrong reversal points or taking a reversal point after a leaving a big chunk of profits on the table are 2 cases where the overall effectiveness of the trade gets hit big time..

For those of you who do not have past data, go through intraday data posted by soumya_b. Available here http://www. 4 s h a r e d . c o m / d i r /1945306/b41e3d61/Intraday_Future_data.html

This has data from feb 2007, soumya had also posted intraday consolidated data till around may/jun 2007 in ascii format on 4shared. You can get the same from here: http://www. 4 s h a r e d .com/dir/2359198/6625d0b2/Database.html

long live no1lives4ever
thanks brother for the consolidated data link
faith

 

[bandlab2]

iCharts.in &or Investbulls


happy trading

thank you sir for the reply. i already checked those sites, they have daily charts, not 60 minute. can you give more details on the exact url or how to navigate on these sites to get 60 min charts

thanks again

 

[faith]

Dear seniors,

I a following this thread closely, i want to start trading this strategy. but i am struck ith charts. where/how will i get horly charts from internet ? any site where i ca get charts ? i trade with 5paisa terminal, they give charts only for intraday, but not historical charts.

any help will be greatly appreciated. right now i am not there yet to buy metastock and rt data

software ... fibotrader free software
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