Going with the Intraday Mini-Flow!!

[jamit_05]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

Question regarding the entry.

Initial stop was kept at 2536. Why so? In the given case, as per the rules, the entry must be at LOD (please refer to the to Vineet's post in the end, which confirms this rule).

However, I understand that you saw it as a pivot, was that the reason? Please explain in which tf was it a pivot.

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.
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11:30 : Long triggered at 2573. SAR 2536, I took 11:00 low as pivot low. So that - 7.

Please refer to this post of Vineet's:

http://www.traderji.com/day-trading...-miniflow-live-discussion-634.html#post285014

Here he says that he initial stop is always at the days low. However, as the events unfold favourably the stop could be raised.

Therefore, Arm, please explain how the decision to put stop at 11.00 bar low was taken.

Pls oblige.

Amit.

 

[Smart_trade]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

I had already concurred. You are saying absolutely the right thing.

With that I ask, how does one differentiate a dull move from a reliable one? For one, Vineet waits till 11.00 a.m.

To differentiate between dull move and reliable one we have to take help of 1) Volumes during 1st move 2) Angle of ascent

In Friday's case the move 1 had a steep angle of acsent but it had low volumes ( which picked in the afternoon session) to make things more confusing.Steep angle of ascent was showing that the 1st move (upmove is powerful) but it was missing our moving filter in aleast 2 bars.This angle of ascent was certainly too steep to call this move as a flag type corrective move. The low volume was giving the feel of a limping nature of 1st move. Both tests were pointing in different directions. There was no help from 15/20 min timeframes also.

We cannot design a system which will take care of all 100% occurances. If it takes care of 80 % ocurance, then it is doing a good job of handling various scenarios. Friday ,in my view was one such day where if you had shorted and added in the downmove (move no 2) it was ok,one could have reversed on subsequent break of PH and made the day as scratch day or slightly profitable day.

In such cases where the move 1 and move 2 little doubtful, we can consider applying moving filter to second move also,which could have kept us out of short trade and add. We could have gone long above PH ( in move 3 ,if you will) and ended the day with profit.Once pivots are established,it is pivots all the way.

There are no right or wrong actions on such days. We have to weigh the evidence we have about the moves,and take a trading decision and be alert to reverse it in case it proves to be incorrect.

Just put my thoughts which I was having while trading this move real time and reading various thoughtful posts on it EOD.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

 

[jamit_05]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

Here are my trading decisions with reasons. Maybe somethings are wrong, and some things are terribly wrong. if that is so somebody will correct (I hope)

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12:30 : SAR updated to 2541, 2 bar rule after day high was taken out. (11:30 low - 7)
..

My objection regarding this is that, the rules state that there must be HH AND HL. In this case a HL is absent.

Saint said:
".
..
.

BAR 4 LH-LL.......Nothing to be done till it is completed.After the end of the 4th Bar,move stops to the high of BAR 2."

Please note how a LH and LL is required.

I hope you will overlook any bit of criticism that might reflect in my words wherein I am only trying to ask proper questions to the experts so that I may be proved wrong (which is more likely to happen) and hence learn.

Sincerely,
Amit.

 

[Flock]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

Question regarding the entry.

Initial stop was kept at 2536. Why so? In the given case, as per the rules, the entry must be at LOD (please refer to the to Vineet's post in the end, which confirms this rule).

However, I understand that you saw it as a pivot, was that the reason? Please explain in which tf was it a pivot.



Please refer to this post of Vineet's:

http://www.traderji.com/day-trading...-miniflow-live-discussion-634.html#post285014

Here he says that he initial stop is always at the days low. However, as the events unfold favourably the stop could be raised.

Therefore, Arm, please explain how the decision to put stop at 11.00 bar low was taken.

Pls oblige.

Amit.

Hi Amit,

LOD is ok if you have nothing else to support a better SAR. However, if you get a pivot better than LOD (like Friday) or if the 4 bar rule applies your initial stop will be that.

I made a mistake not over there, but at 1:30, when I put my SAR at 1:30 low - filter, actually it should have been 1:00 low - filter which also coincides with the low of the 13:00 60 minute bar and also is a pivot low. (Was lucky to get away with it, but lesson learnt.)

Rgds

 

[jamit_05]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

To differentiate between dull move and reliable one we have to take help of 1) Volumes during 1st move 2) Angle of ascent

In Friday's case the move 1 had a steep angle of acsent but it had low volumes ( which picked in the afternoon session) to make things more confusing.Steep angle of ascent was showing that the 1st move (upmove is powerful) but it was missing our moving filter in aleast 2 bars.This angle of ascent was certainly too steep to call this move as a flag type corrective move. The low volume was giving the feel of a limping nature of 1st move. Both tests were pointing in different directions. There was no help from 15/20 min timeframes also.

We cannot design a system which will take care of all 100% occurances. If it takes care of 80 % ocurance, then it is doing a good job of handling various scenarios. Friday ,in my view was one such day where if you had shorted and added in the downmove (move no 2) it was ok,one could have reversed on subsequent break of PH and made the day as scratch day or slightly profitable day.

In such cases where the move 1 and move 2 little doubtful, we can consider applying moving filter to second move also,which could have kept us out of short trade and add. We could have gone long above PH ( in move 3 ,if you will) and ended the day with profit.Once pivots are established,it is pivots all the way.

There are no right or wrong actions on such days. We have to weigh the evidence we have about the moves,and take a trading decision and be alert to reverse it in case it proves to be incorrect.

Just put my thoughts which I was having while trading this move real time and reading various thoughtful posts on it EOD.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

Awesome write-up. Worthy of publication.

Am adding it to my rule book, in hope of implementing it on a later date.

Thanks.
Amit.

 

[Flock]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

My objection regarding this is that, the rules state that there must be HH AND HL. In this case a HL is absent.

Saint said:
".
..
.

BAR 4 LH-LL.......Nothing to be done till it is completed.After the end of the 4th Bar,move stops to the high of BAR 2."

Please note how a LH and LL is required.

I hope you will overlook any bit of criticism that might reflect in my words wherein I am only trying to ask proper questions to the experts so that I may be proved wrong (which is more likely to happen) and hence learn.

Sincerely,
Amit.

After completion of 4 bars, you dont have to wait for the next one to finish, if it takes out the high of the previous bar that is enough (my understanding). Although in this case it was a little questionable, cause the higher high was just by 1 point. Could have waited for it to go a few more points up.

 

[jamit_05]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

Hi Amit,

LOD is ok if you have nothing else to support a better SAR. However, if you get a pivot better than LOD (like Friday) or if the 4 bar rule applies your initial stop will be that.


Rgds

Hello Arm,

I do not see a pivot at 11.00 low. Not even inthe 15 min chart.

 

[jamit_05]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

After completion of 4 bars, you dont have to wait for the next one to finish, if it takes out the high of the previous bar that is enough (my understanding). Although in this case it was a little questionable, cause the higher high was just by 1 point. Could have waited for it to go a few more points up.

Quite right, it seems questionable also because it was not a HL. So I guess at the completion of this bar (as HL is not made) one would revise the decision of raising the SAR.

Amit

 

[Flock]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

Quite right, it seems questionable also because it was not a HL. So I guess at the completion of this bar (as HL is not made) one would revise the decision of raising the SAR.

Amit

Amit,

My understanding is that the 4 bar rule, 2 bar rule, etc is to save us in case a V shaped reversal (without warning) occurs. So after 4 completed bars, if the fifth bar makes a new high we move our stops (if we are long). No waiting to see where it makes its low, LL or HL does not matter.

 

[Smart_trade]

Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion

Amit,

My understanding is that the 4 bar rule, 2 bar rule, etc is to save us in case a V shaped reversal (without warning) occurs. So after 4 completed bars, if the fifth bar makes a new high we move our stops (if we are long). No waiting to see where it makes its low, LL or HL does not matter.

You are absolutely correct ,arm, that 2 bars rule is to save us in case of V shaped reversals where pivots are far off.

After completion of 4 bars of HH,HL formation,we move our stop to the low of a bar 2 bars back (so 2nd bar in this case) -f . On 5th bar making a HH we can move our stops to low of 3rd bar -f ( without waiting for 5th bar to complete)

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade