Going with the Intraday Mini-Flow!!

[rkkarnani]

Yes RKK, your understanding seems correct from the Saint's reply you quoted . But consider the following :

1st bar .... LL,LH,Lower close.(LC)

2nd bar .... LL,LH ,HC

3rd bar ... LL,LH,LC

4th bar ... LL.LH,HC

I am not too convinced whether this is a fit case for lowering SAR and reversing on this very weak move.

That is what I said that the 2nd and 3rd condition mentioned is my interpretation based on common sense that 4 bar rule is to be applied in case of strong and sustained move which has accumalated good profits for you and is likely to exhaust and reverse.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

IMHO, When we have a higher close of 2nd bar as per your example in most probabilities we are sure to find some Pivot in smaller time frame.

A 30 minutes bar comprises of 2 Bars of 15 minutes each.

A higher close in 30 minutes means a Pivot is waiting to be formed in 15 min.TF

I say this becoz of the 2 bars of 15 minutes that incorporate the 30 minutes bar, the later one must have a higher high and when the next 30 minutes bar close lower I am sure we shall find a PH in 15 min. TF!!!

Though what I have written seems quiet obvious to me but to tell the truth have never checked it out though my common sense tells me I ought to be correct!!!

Please do not take my words for granted and do check and please post your findings!!!

Thanx for this fruitful discussion!!!

 

[Smart_trade]

IMHO, When we have a higher close of 2nd bar as per your example in most probabilities we are sure to find some Pivot in smaller time frame, a 30 bar comprises of 2 15 minutes bar, a higher close in 30 minutes means a Pivot is waiting to be formed in 15 min.TF!!! Though what I have written seems quiet obvious to me but to tell the truth have never checked it out though my common sense tells me I ought to be correct!!! Please do not take my words for granted and do recheck and please post your findings!!!

Yes RKK, I have envisaged this possibility that the scenerio I fear is a market drifting sideways with a downward bias may give me a PH on lower time frame but I will not be inclined to apply 4 bar rule here and not even be looking at a pivot on lower time frames here. I tend to go by the idea behind the rule and not the letter.

I am sure that we will soon have this case and big debate on the situation envisaged by me.I am just crystalising my possible action in this scenario. And as this system is still evolving,Saint also may not have thought about all possibilities right in the beginning and hence we can debate and be prepared when mkt throws this situation to us.

Smart_trade

 

[orderflow13]

Am i getting it right ?
As ST said, WRB is playing big role. In LL,LH,HC candle of 30 min we wont have WRB and 4 bar rule coming in place only when we have vertical moves.Logic is capitalizing on big moves ( if we shift SAR near we can add aggressively without hurting MM ) otherwise we can say lack of conviction on downside.So better keep our s/l as far as possible to protect from whipsaws.So why i am confuse and in a way reluctant to shift my sar before completion of candle

 

[rajendrani]

Saint, you are simply awesome. You are one pricelss gem. God bless you.

Thanks
Rajendrani

 

[Saint]

Dear Saint,

After 4 th bar in the above example(consecutive LH,LL),I was quite clear that the stop is at H of bar No2,but the misunderstanding I had was after 5 th bar which makes HH but LL,we dont move SL to H of 3rd bar as in downmove,we are monitoring successive lower highs. But now I have understood that in 5th bar if it makes LL then immediately shift SL to H of 3rd bar +space.

Suppose 5th bar makes HH and HL (instead of LL) then we keep the SL at H of 2nd bar only,that is my understanding .

Yep,correct......

Another Q is that if we are bringing down the SL once 5th bar makes LL irrespective whether it makes LH or HH then why wait for the bar to be complete ? Our SL anyway is going to be shifted to H of 3rd bar +space irrespective of outcome of this bar ? So why not move to 3rd bar H+ space the moment 5 th bar makes a LL ?

These were the real Q I was facing while trading yesterday.So the clarification will help me to tackle these situations next time around.

Thanks for your patient answering !!!


Smart_trade

Yes,ST........wait for the first 4 bars to form,stop loss at where it was above the high of the 1st bar.After the completion of 4th bar LH-LL,move the stop to high of 2nd bar+room.Once 5th bar makes a LL,already you are moving stops to the high of the 3rd bar.If no LL,then stops remainabove the high of the 2nd bar.


Once again,to reiterate:

BAR 1 forms.

BAR 2 LH-LL .......Short below BAR 1 with room.Stops above high of BAR1

BAR 3 LH-LL.......Nothing to be done.Stops where it was.

BAR 4 LH-LL.......Nothing to be done till it is completed.After the end of the 4th Bar,move stops to the high of BAR 2.

From here,2 possibilities:a)BAR 5 makes a LL,then move stops to the high of BAR 3.b)BAR 5 does not make a LL,keep stops at high of BAR 2.

So on so forth for Bar 6.


Hope this clarifies...........this is the same as the 2 bar method in the 60min Flow,someone here coined the term 4 BAR rule here as there is no active management in a vertical move down till 4 bars are completely formed. Reversals till the 4th bar is formed require stops above the 1st bar to get taken out for us to get long.

Saint

 

[Saint]

In the 4 bar reversal, Can we consider the 1000 bar as the first bar? I am asking this because the first bar will be only of 5 minutes. Is it required to get all 4 bars of 30 min.

Regards

Nope,first bar is 5mins,the next 3 are 30mins....

Saint

 

[Saint]

Can anybody please confirm this....
At the end of the trading day, Saint Sir did mention something about 2 bar rule....
and he said he'll explain on friday....
is this what Vjay is asking??????
I have no idea about 2 bar rule

Explained 2 posts ago to ST,........think it is clear...I hope.

Anything else,.......get back to me,Sunil.

Saint

 

[Saint]

Sunil,Vijay,inspire

I think all of you are talking about the same thing and all are correct.

4 bar rule becomes applicable when we have min 4 consecutive bars with lows successively lower than the earlier bar in case of the down move.Also as per my understanding all 4 bars must close successively lower and 1-2 bars must be WRBs in this sequence. These two conditions are not specifically mentioned by Saint but from the examples I studied ,I have formed this impression.

If all the three conditions are not present then it makes no sense lowering the SAR level to high of bar 2+space after 4th bar,high of bar 3 +space after 5 th bar etc. So in effect 4 bar rule to be applied after a sustained and strong move with the purpose of protecting the profits and participating in the likely reversal !!!

This is my interpretation.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

Great stuff as always.........everyone else,have a look at the Bold Part in quote by ST.Have said this before already,but to reemphasise the point again,nicely put by ST.

Saint

 

[Saint]

Thanks ST.
But doubts not clear about this 4 bar rule.If 4 bars which are in LH and LL seen then can we not move the SAR to 2 bar high+room(if not found any Pivots in 20/15)?
VJAY

Yes VJAY,correct.....

Saint

 

[Saint]

Am i getting it right ?
As ST said, WRB is playing big role. In LL,LH,HC candle of 30 min we wont have WRB and 4 bar rule coming in place only when we have vertical moves.Logic is capitalizing on big moves ( if we shift SAR near we can add aggressively without hurting MM ) otherwise we can say lack of conviction on downside.So better keep our s/l as far as possible to protect from whipsaws.So why i am confuse and in a way reluctant to shift my sar before completion of candle

Alex,think your doubt is answered by the last few posts.

Saint