Going with the Intraday Mini-Flow!!

[Smart_trade]

Vijay,

Posting 15 min NF chart of 10-10-2008 as required by you.

Also posting 30 min NF chart (10-10-08) for ready reference.

Smart_trade

 

[Smart_trade]

Vijay,

Sorry for the goof up ... 15 min NF stayed back. Now here it is ...

ST

 

[beethoven]

I agree RKK that we should have some guidelines when to look at 15 instead of 30 min chart. SAR at 3320-7 =3313 is on 15 min pivot,we did not miss it,in fact some of us including me went short at 3313.But Saint reversed at 3342-7 = 3335 and I found no reason on 30 but possible reason on 15 as mentioned in my post above. On 30 the 11=30 candle is only a black candle,no other indication....

When to look at 30 and when to get down on 15 for reversal decision is still gray area in my mind. On behalf of all of us ,I request Saint to write a few words to clear this point.


Smart_trade

Yes ST, SAR at 3313 was very obvious but the doubts are about the reversal of Saint at 3342-7=3335. We have read "Teach a man ---" and many things which saint has written and thought we have understood all (or major portion anyway) but real implication only seeps in when trading with actual money (or paper trade with real earnestness). This will come after more experience. Every day we are learning more in real sense though we have read it before.

Can someone post pls post yesterdays 15, 30 and 60TFs charts as this is a good case study for all three TF alignment and action to be taken.

I think we have now got two situations were quick reaction is required 1. where the 5th bar takes out low of 4th bar we have to move the SAR quickly to 3rd bar high plus room 2. Yesterday's scenario where we have to be on our toes of a potential reversal when all three TFs give this signal and change the SAR.

Of course awaiting Saint's comments also on this issue.

Happy flow trading

Bee

 

[Smart_trade]

Our friend NC is good at posting the 15,30 and 60 min charts side by side,hey NC where are you ? Look forward to yr charts....

Smart_trade

 

[rkkarnani]

On 30 the 11=30 candle is only a black candle,no other indication....

Smart_trade

Hi ST, Thanx for your respoce!! Would like to comment on your above observation : The 11.30 Candle is the first candle which had a lower closure since morning :
Closing values:
10 : 3319
10:30 : 3358
11 : 3390
11:30 : 3366

The closing values have not much significance other nudging us to have a look at the 15 minutes chart!!!

This is my view from "side of the ring"!!! And I do believe that the perspective changes when you are inside the ring, actually trading!!!! Its very easy for me to analyse as have no emotions to tackle with, have no real money at stake!!! And more so when I have the right side of the chart in front of me!!
But giving it an honest thought I feel I would act as I have mentioned!!! And also note that the paper trades I am doing had the same trade!!!
Yes , I agree we need to have clarity on when to refer to lower time frame!!!
My understanding is and probably understood by all here is that we refer to lower TF when the present trend is disturbed !!! After all if our trade is in the direction of the trend there is no need,
and
the need arises when we have a continued trend for some time (4 bars rules) and see no Pivots in 30 minutes and need to know where to trail the SL (SAR)!!!
Awaiting Saints input!!!

 

[rkkarnani]

Can someone post pls post yesterdays 15, 30 and 60TFs charts as this is a good case study for all three TF alignment and action to be taken.

I think we have now got two situations were quick reaction is required
1. where the 5th bar takes out low of 4th bar we have to move the SAR quickly to 3rd bar high plus room.

2. Yesterday's scenario where we have to be on our toes of a potential reversal when all three TFs give this signal and change the SAR.

Of course awaiting Saint's comments also on this issue.

Happy flow trading

Bee

Hi Bee, One has to be on his toes all the time while day trading and more so in the present volatile times!!!
Just see the hourly movement of Nifty Futures yesterday!
High and Low Between
9.55 & 11 = 3410 , 3216 = 194
11 & 12 = 3410-3302 = 108
12 &1 = 3399-3228 = 171
1 & 2 = 3360 -3228 = 132
2& 3 = 3400-3258 = 142
3&3.30 = 3400-3328 = 72

But mercifully the present system of Mini flow does not require lightening reactions!!!

 

[Prabhjeet]

I tend to agree with RK's and many other's view about some confusions on yesterday's trade. I was comfortably trading system since last week but suddenly yesterday the mini flow started to look like the day trading system which wrecks the nerves so easily.

As per my original understanding I thought that we have to keep 30 min. in view all the time and may be latch on to 15 min. when we have huge gains to protect but my understanding seems to be incorrect. If I had traded yesterday, I would not have used 15 min. pivots even once as our position was never in huge profits but when I visited this thread I found that many trades have been taken with 15 min.

Also I dont understand why we have to surrender our shorts when we see a bottoming tail on 30 min. charts, most of the times these tails prove to be lower pivot lows where we can add, then why not hold our positions. As per my experience in a downtrend, a topping tail has much more significance as compared to bottoming tails

My head actually spun a lot after reading yesterday's trades, I sincerely hope Saint posts atleast some basic PURE kind of rules which can later be tweaked just like 60 min. flow

Regards

 

[Smart_trade]

Very valid observations RKK, and though you are paper trading,I have full confidence that you are doing testing in all sincerety and would trade exactly as per your above observation...And paper trading does not make them less important or useful,thnks for these.

When I am trading with actual trades,earlier I used to be only looking at 30 min charts and get down to 15 if there is a situation demanding that,so lot of peace in trading but from yesterdays fast market,I am inclined to look at 15 the moment 30 stops going up,earlier I would have said if it is not going up so what ? not sufficient reason to go to 15 ,but now I am loosing that peace which I was experiencing last so many days and now constantly on vigil. And also constantly worrying that is it a sufficient reason to reverse the posn ? Is it due to the fast mkt we had yesterday or some conflict in my mind I am trying to resolve this conflict in my mind.

Thanks for your inputs,I value them a great deal as always...

Smart_trade

 

[beethoven]

In case you mean to say that we change the SL to 3rd Bar high as soon as the 5th Bar takes out the low of the 4th Bar, then kindly note that you must wait for the 5th bar to complete before taking the afore said action!!! I had this doubt and had queried Saint on it and he had clarified about waiting for the bar to complete!!!

Thanks RK. But can you tell me where Saint has said this. We only wait for 4 bars to complete then as soon as 5th bar takes out the lows of 4th we change because the 5th bar can reverse and go on to take out the highs of 3rd and 2nd bar even and so on. This is generally seen in case of steep downtrend as in 4 bar down turns and then quick recovery. This is the essence of this strategy - to protect the profits of this windfall move as soon as possible -- the wait is only till 4 bars.
Bee

 

[chachi]

In case you mean to say that we change the SL to 3rd Bar high as soon as the 5th Bar takes out the low of the 4th Bar, then kindly note that you must wait for the 5th bar to complete before taking the afore said action!!! I had this doubt and had queried Saint on it and he had clarified about waiting for the bar to complete!!!

Hi RK,

For your query, Saint has answered that from 5th bar (including 5th bar) you need not wait for bars to complete. i.e if 5th bar takes out the lows of 4th bar, move SL to 3rd bar high+room and so on.

Here are Saints exact words.....

Hi RK,

On completion of 4th bar......till the 4h bar is fully formed,stop losses are at day's high(taking shorts) + room.From the 5th bar,every low is your signal to bring stops to the high of 2 bars back.

To reiterate:Bar 1,Bar 2 LH-LL,stop above Bar1,Bar 3 LH-LL,stop above Bar 1,Bar 4LH-LL,stop above Bar 2,Bar 5 LH-LL,stop above Bar 3..........till the 4th bar is completed,no playing around with the stops unless we get a pivot on lower time frames.

Saint

Chachi