Going with the Intraday Mini-Flow!!

[musicjunkie]

What would I do without you ST?
wonderful explanation, everything crystal clear.

Thanks to MB also explaining the same via PM some time ago.

MJ-

 

[columbus]

Hi MJ,

Though I have more than one trading accounts, I prefer trading 60 min and mini flow positions in the same account .I have been doing that without any problem or confusion. In fact it is better ,many times you dont pay double margins. Let me explain,

Suppose you are 3 nifty contracts long on 60 min flow,and you get a sell signal in mini flow. And as my stoploss is generally close in miniflow suppose I decide to short 5 contracts,I go ahead and sell 5 contracts. Thus my position with my broker becomes +150 -250 =-100 (net) and my margin gets blocked only for 100 nifty. If I trade these positions in two different accounts,then broker A charges me margin for my 150 long nifty and broker B charges me margin for 250 short nifty ,so the total margin which gets blocked is for 150 and 250 equal to 400 nifty.So my 4 time margin gets blocked intraday.In short I get a netting effect for my margins.Even if there are two accounts with same broker,margins do get blocked as shown above.Two a/c ,means no netting.

I have nothing to do with my position with my broker for me my position is as under :

60 min positional trade Mini flow intraday trade

Long 150 (long 3 contracts) Short 250 (short 5 contracts)


So at the end of the day,assuming there is no position change in 60 min trade,I cover my short position in mini flow trade so EOD my posn becomes
+150 -250 + 250 = + 150 and that is my carry home position for 60 min system.

The above is to be done ONLY if you can view these two positions as separate.Initially people may find it difficult and if you have to constantly peep into your net position window for trading comfort,then two separate accounts is recommended.

Hope the above clarifies,

Smart_trade

Even with ONE account it is possible.Use NIFTY for 60-min flow and MINIFTY for mini flow.
Or people hating to trade with MINIFTY can do the same with futures of NEXT month.I think
ONLY once ,I placed orders wrongly(sell and buy the same month futures) ,but by the time
I realized the mistake ,the orders got EXECUTED.To avoid such mistakes it is better to have
2 accounts otherwise ONE account is sufficient.Anything wrong with this strategy???

 

[orderflow13]

Hi MJ,

Though I have more than one trading accounts, I prefer trading 60 min and mini flow positions in the same account .I have been doing that without any problem or confusion. In fact it is better ,many times you dont pay double margins. Let me explain,

Suppose you are 3 nifty contracts long on 60 min flow,and you get a sell signal in mini flow. And as my stoploss is generally close in miniflow suppose I decide to short 5 contracts,I go ahead and sell 5 contracts. Thus my position with my broker becomes +150 -250 =-100 (net) and my margin gets blocked only for 100 nifty. If I trade these positions in two different accounts,then broker A charges me margin for my 150 long nifty and broker B charges me margin for 250 short nifty ,so the total margin which gets blocked is for 150 and 250 equal to 400 nifty.So my 4 time margin gets blocked intraday.In short I get a netting effect for my margins.Even if there are two accounts with same broker,margins do get blocked as shown above.Two a/c ,means no netting.

I have nothing to do with my position with my broker for me my position is as under :

60 min positional trade Mini flow intraday trade

Long 150 (long 3 contracts) Short 250 (short 5 contracts)


So at the end of the day,assuming there is no position change in 60 min trade,I cover my short position in mini flow trade so EOD my posn becomes
+150 -250 + 250 = + 150 and that is my carry home position for 60 min system.

The above is to be done ONLY if you can view these two positions as separate.Initially people may find it difficult and if you have to constantly peep into your net position window for trading comfort,then two separate accounts is recommended.

Hope the above clarifies,

Smart_trade

S_T
Problem is trading in same account will jump the volume in your primary account, it will create few complications to manage your credit note for your CA.
Prior commitment with broker while opening new day trading account can also lead to reduce in brokerage.Day traders are the high volume bzness for brokers
Just my view otherwise i dont see any problem.

 

[Smart_trade]

Even with ONE account it is possible.Use NIFTY for 60-min flow and MINIFTY for mini flow.
Or people hating to trade with MINIFTY can do the same with futures of NEXT month.I think
ONLY once ,I placed orders wrongly(sell and buy the same month futures) ,but by the time
I realized the mistake ,the orders got EXECUTED.To avoid such mistakes it is better to have
2 accounts otherwise ONE account is sufficient.Anything wrong with this strategy???

Trading NIFTY and MINIFTY positions for different system is a very good idea,columbus as they walk togather and both have a good liquidity. However trading near month and middle months contract for different positions, I am not sure whether the middle month contract will have good liquidity and low buy/sell spread,never tried this.But since you have traded this ,would like to know about liquidity of middle month contract from you.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

 

[columbus]

Trading NIFTY and MINIFTY positions for different system is a very good idea,columbus as they walk togather and both have a good liquidity. However trading near month and middle months contract for different positions, I am not sure whether the middle month contract will have good liquidity and low buy/sell spread,never tried this.But since you have traded this ,would like to know about liquidity of middle month contract from you.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

Hi smart,

Yes the middle month Futures have some liquidity problem as rightly
pointed out by you.I think for catching TREND it is not at all a problem.
Have a try ,if possible!!!!!

 

[TFL]

Hi MJ,

Though I have more than one trading accounts, I prefer trading 60 min and mini flow positions in the same account .I have been doing that without any problem or confusion. In fact it is better ,many times you dont pay double margins. Let me explain,

Suppose you are 3 nifty contracts long on 60 min flow,and you get a sell signal in mini flow. And as my stoploss is generally close in miniflow suppose I decide to short 5 contracts,I go ahead and sell 5 contracts. Thus my position with my broker becomes +150 -250 =-100 (net) and my margin gets blocked only for 100 nifty. If I trade these positions in two different accounts,then broker A charges me margin for my 150 long nifty and broker B charges me margin for 250 short nifty ,so the total margin which gets blocked is for 150 and 250 equal to 400 nifty.So my 4 time margin gets blocked intraday.In short I get a netting effect for my margins.Even if there are two accounts with same broker,margins do get blocked as shown above.Two a/c ,means no netting.

I have nothing to do with my position with my broker for me my position is as under :

60 min positional trade Mini flow intraday trade

Long 150 (long 3 contracts) Short 250 (short 5 contracts)


So at the end of the day,assuming there is no position change in 60 min trade,I cover my short position in mini flow trade so EOD my posn becomes
+150 -250 + 250 = + 150 and that is my carry home position for 60 min system.

The above is to be done ONLY if you can view these two positions as separate.Initially people may find it difficult and if you have to constantly peep into your net position window for trading comfort,then two separate accounts is recommended.

Hope the above clarifies,

Smart_trade

But Smart_trade,

I will make our money management complex. Here we are not taking heavy leverage provided by Futures, So we will have enough money/limit to cover the margins for 60 min Flow and Intraday Flow individually. The advantage of low margin required if traded on the same account is not at all an advantage. It will actually only increase the risk.

We may benefit of the low margin requirement in one even with out taking the above said MM risk. That's buy keeping the excess money(Less margin is only required..so the cash will be always there as limit if traded in a single account...) in a fixed deposit of say 10% or in such safe deposit options.
Here another problem arises... We will only get this low margin advantage when we take a counter position(opposite to 60 min flow) in intraday. We cannot ensure that we will be always opposite the 60 min. So cannot be applied effectively...

These are all from my easy thoughts... What you people think of?

Hari.

 

[orderflow13]

But Smart_trade,

I will make our money management complex. Here we are not taking heavy leverage provided by Futures, So we will have enough money/limit to cover the margins for 60 min Flow and Intraday Flow individually. The advantage of low margin required if traded on the same account is not at all an advantage. It will actually only increase the risk.

We may benefit of the low margin requirement in one even with out taking the above said MM risk. That's buy keeping the excess money(Less margin is only required..so the cash will be always there as limit if traded in a single account...) in a fixed deposit of say 10% or in such safe deposit options.
Here another problem arises... We will only get this low margin advantage when we take a counter position(opposite to 60 min flow) in intraday. We cannot ensure that we will be always opposite the 60 min. So cannot be applied effectively...

These are all from my easy thoughts... What you people think of?

Hari.

Hari
If i didnt get ur post. correctly, plz forgive wt i about to say ..
Taking liverage position is the first cardinal sin in any effective Money Management. I dont think some one taking 5 nf lots with the account of 2 lk... though margin require fullfilled for 5 lots but MM will be shaken ...

 

[ratan jain]

Ahhh..prabhjeet, well Iv been there,
I feel awful when something stupid like that happens, eats me up too for days.....

In indiabulls if we can switch accounts with one click then a new account is fine. When putting an order, look at the left side, you'll see your account name in a dropdown box, if we can choose different accounts from there then it will be better to open a new account for daytrades.

Ill ask my Rep and find out, otherwise trading the same account is O.K!

MJ-

Selecting the account number from the drop box is not available to reatil trades, only sub brokers in Indiabulls.

 

[TFL]

Hari
If i didnt get ur post. correctly, plz forgive wt i about to say ..
Taking liverage position is the first cardinal sin in any effective Money Management. I dont think some one taking 5 nf lots with the account of 2 lk... though margin require fullfilled for 5 lots but MM will be shaken ...

alex_laxya,

I meant for the particular situation and not trying to define MM like that...

Hari.

 

[Smart_trade]

But Smart_trade,

I will make our money management complex. Here we are not taking heavy leverage provided by Futures, So we will have enough money/limit to cover the margins for 60 min Flow and Intraday Flow individually. The advantage of low margin required if traded on the same account is not at all an advantage. It will actually only increase the risk.

We may benefit of the low margin requirement in one even with out taking the above said MM risk. That's buy keeping the excess money(Less margin is only required..so the cash will be always there as limit if traded in a single account...) in a fixed deposit of say 10% or in such safe deposit options.
Here another problem arises... We will only get this low margin advantage when we take a counter position(opposite to 60 min flow) in intraday. We cannot ensure that we will be always opposite the 60 min. So cannot be applied effectively...

These are all from my easy thoughts... What you people think of?

Hari.

You got me wrong Hari,I am not even suggesting that we take large leveraged positions without sufficient capitalisation. We must have trading capital adequate to support our 60 min and mini flow positions but instead of keeping the entire money with my broker,I prefer keeping some portion with the broker and rest in my OD account which has more safety and earns interest for me.And in these days of online money transfer it is very easy to put in or take out extra amount as required from my brokers margin a/c to my OD account. And when both positions are long or short ( in one direction,)there is no netting available so I have to put in extra margin which can easily be done on line.

Taking excessive leverage is one of the worst mistakes of trading.So we NEVER commit that mistake.

If you prefer to keep the entire trading capital money with your broker, fine
but for me my money is safer in my account than when it is in my brokers account.

Best Wishes, and NEVER OVERTRADE,


Smart_trade