Going with the Intraday Mini-Flow!!

[rkkarnani]

Hello Rakesh,

Your observation has lot of fandas of intraday trading .I will summerise my views as under :

1) Yes you are right that at the time of initial entry our SL is a bit too far for intraday trading as most would see. But it is a stop only if the market goes against us right from the word go and straightaway hits our SL but you will agree that that it very rarely happens. In most cases,market will do something which will enable us to bring our SL down and reduce our risk. And the kind of agressive traders you and some of our friends are we will not generally let our initial large SL get hit.

2) But we have to trade small quantities as there is a possibility,however small,of our SL getting hit straight away,but we have to respect risk and once the trade moves in favour we can add to our positions. We should NEVER exceed our initial risk % of 1 or 1.5 % of trading equity no matter what .....

3) Conventional daytrading systems operate on large quantities and small SL but get their SL hit 2-3 times a day and having traded number of such systems (successfully or otherwise is another story ) I have come to conclusion that there are some great traders ( like our Asishda,who can do a great job scalping,but the question is am I that expert or blessed like them ?My honest answer is I am not.

4) I have found out an answer to this problem and I will share that with everyone. But I will delete this portion afterwords as it is not as per the rules and outside the domain of this system. I always enter small,and then wait like a hawk to see an opportunity to enter large quantity ( like a small inside bar,a tiny pivot on smaller time frames or a antitrend move which takes me near the SL etc to step on the accelerator with tight stop of 10-15 nifty points for the adds and if that is hit,too bad,price for my aggressive stance,and get out of the adds ,original position continues. And if the agressive add succeeds,then you are on a great joy ride.

But this is risky and everyone should fully understand the risk before trying this out. I am in no way suggesting overtrading.

I improve my R/R as above,may not be a great way but I found it very useful as I can trade large without taking huge risk.


Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

Very nice input!!! Shall read it at leisure!!! Posted this lest you delete it after some time!!!

 

[niftychance]

Didn't anybody get back in or hold positions till the end.........pulled another 60pts sitting at the restaurant.

Was hoping you guys will be making a killing.Hope some of you did.

Anyway,great day and great going.

Saint

Hello Sir,

The 'I' was there in this trade from the very beginning ...

Don't know about others but it was very difficult for me to take the short in the first place {the monkey in the brain kept saying "how down it can go from here, has to go up"}

By the end of the day the markets proved that I chickened out about 200 points earlier ...

There were other things on my mind like my equity approaching back to breakeven point ...

For me this is great lesson learned, 200 points is a good price to pay for it...

Thanks

PS: On days like this, Real Trading Experience shows up, thankful to have you around to hold hands for us Rookie Traders

 

[rajendrani]

All as usual unless if you don't want to trade,that is......Diwali and all.After a day like today,might just get a good move on Monday in the reverse direction.......but to trade or not to trade is your call to make.

Saint

Thank you sir, that exactly kind of answer I was looking for, so everything remains normal. Your methodology has worked a lot for me and would continue to use your methodlolgy, On diwali yes I will not be trading, but I would definately like to add more on my diwali profit, as I am not having any job right now, so taking intraday trading as my full time job presently.

It has always been observed from all of your post that you are always happy to help other, I had posted my question in this thread so many times, but most of the time I find you to answer those. Thank you very much Sir. No offence to other seniors all are helpful, but saint is one of the best.

Happy diwali to all of you and god bless you all.

Thanks and regards,
rajendrani

 

[orderflow13]

Now,unlike the 60min Flow Thread.........not going to start off by defining the rules,what the Set-up is,how the position sizing should be.There definitely is a Strategy,a Set Up,a definite Plan,and the execution of that Plan.......but we shall definitely discuss it as we go along.Probably a month later.

The reason is very simple,.........I have been doing this particular method for only a few months now.And would like to see all angles of it before opening up a discussion.So,give me a Month........

I will be posting the trades here.......some may be at the time,not all can be immediately as juggling with many things at the same time.So,don't follow blindly what I am posting.Keep track ,if you would like,as to what this thread is up to,though..........

Basically,I have read,and been told,that Intraday Trading is all about Sophistication,.......sophisticated softwares,codes,indicators........This thread is,as always,only going to use charts,.....price and volume,as always.I have been told that a trader who trades intraday has to go down to 5min charts,2min,1min.......This thread is headed once again in the opposite direction,the exact time frame of trade,we shall talk about later........but have this feeling that Smart Trade,Nifty Chance,Rakesh among others would have it figured out in a few days.

In many ways,this thread is headed off in the opposite direction as to how normal intraday trading is perceived.........and yet,the similarities of a set Trading Plan and clear cut strategies are also there.

This thread is all about these trades,winning and losing,and let's see how things stand on Oct 15th.This entire method just may fall flat on its face.......or it just may not.So caution on blindly following,please.

This thread,like the previous one,is still about "Going with the Flow",it is still about being in the "NOW".....it's about Seizing that Moment and capitalising on it.

All the best!
Happy Trading!
Saint

Hello Rakesh,

Your observation has lot of fundas of intraday trading .I will summerise my views as under :

1) Yes you are right that at the time of initial entry our SL is a bit too far for intraday trading as most would see. But it is a stop only if the market goes against us right from the word go and straightaway hits our SL but you will agree that that it very rarely happens. In most cases,market will do something which will enable us to bring our SL down and reduce our risk. And the kind of agressive traders you and some of our friends are we will not generally let our initial large SL get hit.

2) But we have to trade small quantities as there is a possibility,however small,of our SL getting hit straight away,but we have to respect risk and once the trade moves in favour we can add to our positions. We should NEVER exceed our initial risk % of 1 or 1.5 % of trading equity no matter what .....

3) Conventional daytrading systems operate on large quantities and small SL but get their SL hit 2-3 times a day and having traded number of such systems (successfully or otherwise is another story ) I have come to conclusion that there are some great traders ( like our Asishda,who can do a great job scalping,but the question is am I that expert or blessed like them ?My honest answer is I am not.

4) I have found out an answer to this problem and I will share that with everyone. But I will delete this portion afterwords as it is not as per the rules and outside the domain of this system. I always enter small,and then wait like a hawk to see an opportunity to enter large quantity ( like a small inside bar,a tiny pivot on smaller time frames or a antitrend move which takes me near the SL etc to step on the accelerator with tight stop of 10-15 nifty points for the adds and if that is hit,too bad,price for my aggressive stance,and get out of the adds ,original position continues. And if the agressive add succeeds,then you are on a great joy ride.

But this is risky and everyone should fully understand the risk before trying this out. I am in no way suggesting overtrading.

I improve my R/R as above,may not be a great way but I found it very useful as I can trade large without taking huge risk.


Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

Smart_trade
I hope you would not delete your post. Let us encourage the thought process.By posting our thought process we try to get the opinion from others, we discuss with them, we learn other angles of our methods from them which we sometimes tend to missing. This is all the forum about otherwise it will pass as a ' Blog '. If we start deleting the post only b'cuz some other wd confuse then how will we improve ?
Fortunately saint sir is there who is guiding us in time when we start making mistakes ( even when his health is bad ). This the the learning curve which never ends, with changing dimensions of market lets us keep with the market.
When allan greenspan mentioned in his fortnight speech ' all the so called risk modules invented by great nobel prize winners are in question, the condition we are witnessing is once in a century kind of a situation '
Fortunately we still makes money ...., thanks to the saint.
We shall build on our strength not weaknesses !!

 

[rakeshluthra430]

Hello Rakesh,


2) But we have to trade small quantities as there is a possibility,however small,of our SL getting hit straight away,but we have to respect risk and once the trade moves in favour we can add to our positions. We should NEVER exceed our initial risk % of 1 or 1.5 % of trading equity no matter what .....

4) I have found out an answer to this problem and I will share that with everyone. But I will delete this portion afterwords as it is not as per the rules and outside the domain of this system. I always enter small,and then wait like a hawk to see an opportunity to enter large quantity ( like a small inside bar,a tiny pivot on smaller time frames or a antitrend move which takes me near the SL etc to step on the accelerator with tight stop of 10-15 nifty points for the adds and if that is hit,too bad,price for my aggressive stance,and get out of the adds ,original position continues. And if the agressive add succeeds,then you are on a great joy ride.

But this is risky and everyone should fully understand the risk before trying this out. I am in no way suggesting overtrading.

I improve my R/R as above,may not be a great way but I found it very useful as I can trade large without taking huge risk.


Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

Smart,
Thanks a lot for explaining your approach. It is fresh, logical and very astute. Just one more question....regarding your entering with a higher quantity:

(a) Do you enter with more qty if you see a move against the position held....which seems likely to be turning back nearer to the current pivots (making it percieve that a new and lower pivot (as in short position) is in the process of getting formed.)
OR
(b) A new lower ph has already been formed....which has a lower initial risk wrt our Add point.

I dont want to say again that great men think alike (or fools seldom disagree)...but I too have been working on similar lines while backtesting the charts. What I have found out is a mid-point of what you have been doing (or maybe exactly). What I plan to do is....suppose a lower PH is in the procees of being formed. How do we know that?.......bars having 1,2 or more successive highs.
So....once we see that pattern, we get ready to short the lows of the highest high bar (which turns out to be a pivot after completion of the NEXT bar), instead of shorting the previous pivot low. This tweak alone gives amazingly good r/r, though chances of getting stopped out also increase.

Let me try to put this in a chart...to make it clear. I hope everyone reading this knows that this is just a thought...which is getting tested by me...and doesnt form a part of the current method. So exercising personal discretion/restrain/testing is required.

Pl let me know your views Smart...and infact everyone here. I have a few more funny ideas. Lets see how this proceeds.

Thanks a lot
ps: Smart, pl do reply to my pm. I am in a serious dilemma over the questions asked in that pm.

 

[orderflow13]

Rakesh
IMHO ....Your add point seems very risky to me.If prev bar ( whose bo of low u taking add point )wd be wrb, then its break wd be add point, or even if prev bar is some kind of pull back bar like hammer..etc then it wd be good add point, here prev bar ( which made a hh ) value is not that strong, its strong point is only it made a higher high in succession but nothing else than that to build a case.it can easily create a whipsaw.

 

[ratan jain]

Though I am a muslim, I celebrate Diwali with my friends and neighbours. This year, I will light a diya in my home too, to show my respect to Saint, who has been a guiding light here.

Also, just received this sms

Years ago, people who sacrificed their sleep, family, food, money and joy were called Saints.....

Today they are called Shareholders

 

[pakatil]

Dear Rakesh,

I think, we should be Long on the 3rd Bar (11 AM). Since the Upward thrust is being negated in the next Bars, revert to Short. May be a more clear picture will be available in 15 Min Chart. I don't have old data to confirm. In case Reversal is confirmed, your initial short becomes 1st Add.

Your tweaking can become 2nd Add with lesser Risk.

Cheers

 

[franktrader]

Also, just received this sms

Years ago, people who sacrificed their sleep, family, food, money and joy were called Saints.....

Today they are called Shareholders

Good One RJ

 

[Smart_trade]

Smart,
Thanks a lot for explaining your approach. It is fresh, logical and very astute. Just one more question....regarding your entering with a higher quantity:

(a) Do you enter with more qty if you see a move against the position held....which seems likely to be turning back nearer to the current pivots (making it percieve that a new and lower pivot (as in short position) is in the process of getting formed.)
OR
(b) A new lower ph has already been formed....which has a lower initial risk wrt our Add point.

I dont want to say again that great men think alike (or fools seldom disagree)...but I too have been working on similar lines while backtesting the charts. What I have found out is a mid-point of what you have been doing (or maybe exactly). What I plan to do is....suppose a lower PH is in the procees of being formed. How do we know that?.......bars having 1,2 or more successive highs.
So....once we see that pattern, we get ready to short the lows of the highest high bar (which turns out to be a pivot after completion of the NEXT bar), instead of shorting the previous pivot low. This tweak alone gives amazingly good r/r, though chances of getting stopped out also increase.

Let me try to put this in a chart...to make it clear. I hope everyone reading this knows that this is just a thought...which is getting tested by me...and doesnt form a part of the current method. So exercising personal discretion/restrain/testing is required.

Pl let me know your views Smart...and infact everyone here. I have a few more funny ideas. Lets see how this proceeds.

Thanks a lot
ps: Smart, pl do reply to my pm. I am in a serious dilemma over the questions asked in that pm.

Hi Rakesh,

Both A and B options mentioned above are good.Any entry after the indication of trend change is welcome which gives me a chance to enter positions at a reduced SL (but tight SL,not without SL) is welcome...

Try inside bars on smaller timeframes in the direction of the trend,they give great R/R advantage. I will try to post some charts indicating this entry this weekend .

Whenever mkt makes antitrend movement ( option A above)you already have the upper PH and a lower PL ,I have even automated the process that enter half positions at new antitrend upmove at 40 % of the swing and half at 60% ( using simple Fibonacchi levels) and above 60 % start praying and be ready for unpleasant surprises

Will reply your PM,little lazy and some social committments... !!!

Enjoy.....

Smart_trade