Going with the Intraday Mini-Flow!!

[Saint]

Our ability to go long or go short that first bar hinges on the odds that more often than not,the trend goes unidirectionally in our favour.If that were not to be true,our finger is going to have a tough time pressing that trigger button,especially when time and time again,reversals happen and frustrates the 5min breakout trader.But looking at the Nifty charts the last many years,we know that to be a reality,for now.

The problems so far is in dealing with those sideways and reversal days........one does not have that mystic ability to be able to guess which those days are.And since that gift is not given to us,we have to take them all.And somehow find ways,other than bringing the "me" into the picture,to be able to trade the days that matter,go gung ho with our adds and not trade as aggressively on the days that do not matter,and in fact would be detrimental to psyche and account.We could bring indicators into the picture ....... but if you were to bring all your favourite indicators on one chart together,more often than not,you would never be able to press that trigger,as conflicting signals create confusion,and by the time a momentum move is detected,it is too late to capitalise on.

Not of course saying that an indicator here and there might not be useful.......but have noticed that pivots get us in earlier and get us out earlier if one knows how to detect those points.By now,everyone here is a master at detecting those areas.

And since we are all able to see pivots like nobody's business,........why then should we not play to our strengths?So,this thread takes another turn......Once we are done,I will edit the first post and that set of posts on Page 36 so that no confusions prevail.

Despite the best of filters and the best of possible entries,markets have their own way of still giving you a knockout blow.Our job is to minimise the effect of that punch.

So,adding and subtracting a few things in the next post......Rather behaving as if we are having this dialogue for the first time.

Saint

 

[Saint]

AIM:The aim is to trade everyday,and if all goes well,to trade between 10am and 3:25 pm............to trigger without thinking if triggers are hit,trail stop without thinking because that is our Plan,to exit without thinking if stops hit.

PERSPECTIVE:Although we would be trading a particular time frame,we will not be basing our decisions on a larger timeframe.......but we will be taking the help of the larger time frame and the immediate smaller time frame so that we are able to see things more clearly.

TIME FRAME OF TRADE:The 30min chart...........with the help of the 60 and the 20.

CHARTS:Candlestick charts.......just because it gives me better visuals,and a particular pattern that crops up on the 60 helps with the Reversal days.And yet,whatever the pattern,it is the pivot that we are trading.And it is the Pivot that tells us to get out of positions and to stay in.

ENTRY:Allow the 5min bar,the first of the day to form......go long if the high + filter is taken out.Go short if the 5min bar low is taken out.Again with a filter.

MOVING FILTER:For the NF,put in a moving filter at Rs 14 on the 30min charts.......meaning that we want to trade the breakout on the 5 only if it shows strength enough for us to feel confident enough about that particular trade.Bar 1 high is 4312,Bar 2 high is 4320,Bar 3 high is 4330,Bar 4 high is 4337.........meaning we look on and not enter that trade.What we are looking for is a breakout bar,and not a sad excuse of a bar,with some tails.

Once that first bar is formed,we are basically looking to buy Rs14 over the high of that bar.and short Rs14 below the low of that bar.Once the entry is triggerred,presuming a long has been triggerred,stop loss is Rs 7 below the low of that bar.But only on trigger.

And another thing:We get a breakout,add the 14 to it.....and then trade breaks down,we are back to Rs7 for reversal entry,etc.This Rs14 is only for the trade that comes along with the first bar even if the first trade comes many bars later.Other than that trade,it's all Rs7 all the way.

STOP LOSS:Rs 7 below the low of the first bar once we get that breakout in case of longs.Rs 7 above the high once the shorts are triggerred.

TRAIL STOP:Trail stops only on higher pivot lows in longs.......trail stops to lower pivot highs in shorts.If you get strong 4 bars up on the 30 or more,move the stop to the low of 2 bars back.Same as the 2 bar method we employ in the 60min Flow.Only difference is use this only after we get 4 bars up.And if the 5th bar makes a new high,then trail stop to 3rd bar low,so on so forth.

Remember one thing though:2 bar method trail stop is at 4355.Pivot formed on the 30,that is very evident on the 20,trail stop there is 4367.Trail stops using Pivots are much more important.Priority is with the Pivot Stop Loss.


STOP AND REVERSE:All stops are reverse points.

ADDS:There will only be one add to the initial posn.......if we get a momentum move,with big WRB's,then might be 2 adds max.Whether you add an equal no.of contracts or lesser is up to you,so long as you don't add more number of contracts than the initial posn.......Adds at Rs5.

PROFITS:You could take out profits of about a third at the area equivalent to the risk of that trade......If stop loss was Rs 45 away,and you got a Rs45 move and would like a third off.Fine.Once again up to your personality type.

At the end of day,there is pulling out of positions .......basically because want to be out of all before close.So no real rationale as to why there,and not Rs2 ago.

EXITS:Exits are on hitting Trail stops,......at the End of Day.......or taking profits off the table on a weak move up within a dntrend and reversing once the down move starts.

Rest all as usual.......

Saint

 

[milkyblack]

First of all Thanks Saint a lot!

As usual some doubts

Taking todays case... We are long at 4192+14= 4206
Or 4171+ 14= 4185

Regards

 

[milkyblack]

What I understand from the system is for todays trade...

Long 4206 SL 4180 (Initial) (Risk 26 points)
Trailed to 4175
SL got hit 4175
Reverted to shorts at 4175 with Initial SL of 4217 (Risk 42 points)

Exited Shorts on break of pivot on 20/30 4173+7 =4180
Entered long 4180 exited at close 4190

1st long trade loss of 31 pts
2nd short trade loss of 5 points
3rd trade profit of 10 points

Total -26 points...

Please clarify if I am right!
Thanks

Regards

 

[niftychance]

Thanks Sir

Crystal Clear, As of now, No Doubts..........

 

[Saint]

First of all Thanks Saint a lot!

As usual some doubts

Taking todays case... We are long at 4192+14= 4206
Or 4171+ 14= 4185

Regards

Following this,today would have been :Entry at 4206,Reverse to short at 4175 and cover at close at 4190......-31 pts and -15pts

Saint

 

[Saint]

First 2 weeks of August 2008

Saint

 

[milkyblack]

Following this,today would have been :Entry at 4206,Reverse to short at 4175 and cover at close at 4190......-31 pts and -15pts

Saint

Thanks Saint...

But a little doubt... Even trading this system do we look for major pivots... I mean can't the 3.20 bar high be considered as a pivot at 4173? Looking at the 20 min chart?

One more question.... maybe too early to ask... you mentioned to take help of 60 also... when shall we do that?

Sorry Saint too many questions coming up

Regards

 

[Smart_trade]

MOVING FILTER:For the NF,put in a moving filter at Rs 14 on the 30min charts.

Not clear Saint, Does it mean that we call a bar a breakout bar(5 min) if the high (low) of that bar is greater(lower) than high (low) of the preceeding bar plus (minus)Rs 14.Once such bar is formed(considering it is a bullish breakout) we add another Rs 14 to the high of the breakout bar and that is our entry point with low of the bar -Rs 7 as SL ?
(Reverse for Bearish breakout bar )

 

[segul]

Thanks Saint...

But a little doubt... Even trading this system do we look for major pivots... I mean can't the 3.20 bar high be considered as a pivot at 4173? Looking at the 20 min chart?

One more question.... maybe too early to ask... you mentioned to take help of 60 also... when shall we do that?

Sorry Saint too many questions coming up

Regards

Hi MB,

60 min chart will probably be used for seeing reversal bar formations.

regards.