Going with the Intraday Mini-Flow!!
- Thread starter Saint
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Re: Intraday Miniflow Trades for Today: Saint's Method
Posting todays (05-12-2008 ) 30 min Nifty Futures chart with miniflow trades marked on it.Let us go in the sequence of events :
1) 9:55 To 10:00 First bar H=2793, L 2778
2) 10:00 to 10:30 bar H =2807,L=2769 so with our moving filter,short trade not triggered,the long trade will not trigger for most of us using different moving filters, if your filter triggers it,you are long.
I would like to add here that in this bar,both low and high of 1st bar were violated.So which is the first and which is the second move ??I would require another bar to make a HH or LL to say which side is the first move,up or down,so I am keeping moving filter of first move on both sides.
3) 10:30 to 11:00 bar H=2820,L=2788 So no trade triggered sitting on hand.
4) 11:00 to 11:30 bar by this time we know that the first move was up .We now enter a short trade at 2788 Less second move space or normal space. If someone has missed this trade he can go short below PL on 30 min at 2769 less space.The initial SL was 2821(High of the day) +space
5) After 12:30 bar is complete,we move our SAR down to 2806 +space on 2 bars rule.
6) Then we had up and down moves ,but we do nothing.Some of our friends might have gone long here on 2 bars rule on 15 min but that was wrong.
My chart at EOD is not showing PH on 15,but while trading real time I had seen PH on 15 and some of us may have gone long on the break of this 15 min PH.At the time of break of this pivot,I saw 30 min chart,it was having a red bar preeceeding it so no bullish indication and 60 min was a hammer,so no clear bullish indication here als
nly reversing on 15 min pivots,without higher TF agreeing will result in lot of false starts.
7) We could have added at 2756 less space,or 2726 less space and gradually brought our SAR down to 2795/2788/2773 plus space on completion of each successive bars and finally taken our profits in 2700-2720 range.
A great day with clean trade.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
Edit : there is a typo in chart. Read first trade as 2788-space. I also feel there is error in 1:00 bar high in my chart.While trading this bar looked different.
Posting todays (05-12-2008 ) 30 min Nifty Futures chart with miniflow trades marked on it.Let us go in the sequence of events :
1) 9:55 To 10:00 First bar H=2793, L 2778
2) 10:00 to 10:30 bar H =2807,L=2769 so with our moving filter,short trade not triggered,the long trade will not trigger for most of us using different moving filters, if your filter triggers it,you are long.
I would like to add here that in this bar,both low and high of 1st bar were violated.So which is the first and which is the second move ??I would require another bar to make a HH or LL to say which side is the first move,up or down,so I am keeping moving filter of first move on both sides.
3) 10:30 to 11:00 bar H=2820,L=2788 So no trade triggered sitting on hand.
4) 11:00 to 11:30 bar by this time we know that the first move was up .We now enter a short trade at 2788 Less second move space or normal space. If someone has missed this trade he can go short below PL on 30 min at 2769 less space.The initial SL was 2821(High of the day) +space
5) After 12:30 bar is complete,we move our SAR down to 2806 +space on 2 bars rule.
6) Then we had up and down moves ,but we do nothing.Some of our friends might have gone long here on 2 bars rule on 15 min but that was wrong.
My chart at EOD is not showing PH on 15,but while trading real time I had seen PH on 15 and some of us may have gone long on the break of this 15 min PH.At the time of break of this pivot,I saw 30 min chart,it was having a red bar preeceeding it so no bullish indication and 60 min was a hammer,so no clear bullish indication here als
nly reversing on 15 min pivots,without higher TF agreeing will result in lot of false starts.7) We could have added at 2756 less space,or 2726 less space and gradually brought our SAR down to 2795/2788/2773 plus space on completion of each successive bars and finally taken our profits in 2700-2720 range.
A great day with clean trade.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
Edit : there is a typo in chart. Read first trade as 2788-space. I also feel there is error in 1:00 bar high in my chart.While trading this bar looked different.
Last edited:
Re: Intraday Miniflow Trades for Today: Saint's Method
Posting todays (05-12-2008 ) 30 min Nifty Futures chart with miniflow trades marked on it.Let us go in the sequence of events :
1) 9:55 To 10:00 First bar H=2793, L 2778
2) 10:00 to 10:30 bar H =2807,L=2769 so with our moving filter,short trade not triggered,the long trade will not trigger for most of us using different moving filters, if your filter triggers it,you are long.
I would like to add here that in this bar,both low and high of 1st bar were violated.So which is the first and which is the second move ??I would require another bar to make a HH or LL to say which side is the first move,up or down,so I am keeping moving filter of first move on both sides.
3) 10:30 to 11:00 bar H=2820,L=2788 So no trade triggered sitting on hand.
4) 11:00 to 11:30 bar by this time we know that the first move was up .We now enter a short trade at 2788 Less second move space or normal space. If someone has missed this trade he can go short below PL on 30 min at 2769 less space.The initial SL was 2821(High of the day) +space
5) After 12:30 bar is complete,we move our SAR down to 2806 +space on 2 bars rule.
6) Then we had up and down moves ,but we do nothing.Some of our friends might have gone long here on 2 bars rule on 15 min but that was wrong.
My chart at EOD is not showing PH on 15,but while trading real time I had seen PH on 15 and some of us may have gone long on the break of this 15 min PH.At the time of break of this pivot,I saw 30 min chart,it was having a red bar preeceeding it so no bullish indication and 60 min was a hammer,so no clear bullish indication here alsnly reversing on 15 min pivots,without higher TF agreeing will result in lot of false starts.
7) We could have added at 2756 less space,or 2726 less space and gradually brought our SAR down to 2795/2788/2773 plus space on completion of each successive bars and finally taken our profits in 2700-2720 range.
A great day with clean trade.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
Very Clear Explanation ST,
Though I am reasonably comfortable with the method - having traded the system since the beginning, I've always had a couple of niggling doubts. Those doubts are now answered with this post of yours.
Thank you very much indeed - No thanks button for me yet, hence this post.
Sorry all, for cluttering
SK
Posting todays (05-12-2008 ) 30 min Nifty Futures chart with miniflow trades marked on it.Let us go in the sequence of events :
1) 9:55 To 10:00 First bar H=2793, L 2778
2) 10:00 to 10:30 bar H =2807,L=2769 so with our moving filter,short trade not triggered,the long trade will not trigger for most of us using different moving filters, if your filter triggers it,you are long.
I would like to add here that in this bar,both low and high of 1st bar were violated.So which is the first and which is the second move ??I would require another bar to make a HH or LL to say which side is the first move,up or down,so I am keeping moving filter of first move on both sides.
3) 10:30 to 11:00 bar H=2820,L=2788 So no trade triggered sitting on hand.
4) 11:00 to 11:30 bar by this time we know that the first move was up .We now enter a short trade at 2788 Less second move space or normal space. If someone has missed this trade he can go short below PL on 30 min at 2769 less space.The initial SL was 2821(High of the day) +space
5) After 12:30 bar is complete,we move our SAR down to 2806 +space on 2 bars rule.
6) Then we had up and down moves ,but we do nothing.Some of our friends might have gone long here on 2 bars rule on 15 min but that was wrong.
My chart at EOD is not showing PH on 15,but while trading real time I had seen PH on 15 and some of us may have gone long on the break of this 15 min PH.At the time of break of this pivot,I saw 30 min chart,it was having a red bar preeceeding it so no bullish indication and 60 min was a hammer,so no clear bullish indication here als
nly reversing on 15 min pivots,without higher TF agreeing will result in lot of false starts.7) We could have added at 2756 less space,or 2726 less space and gradually brought our SAR down to 2795/2788/2773 plus space on completion of each successive bars and finally taken our profits in 2700-2720 range.
A great day with clean trade.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
Though I am reasonably comfortable with the method - having traded the system since the beginning, I've always had a couple of niggling doubts. Those doubts are now answered with this post of yours.
Thank you very much indeed - No thanks button for me yet, hence this post.
Sorry all, for cluttering
SK
Re: Intraday Miniflow Trades for Today: Saint's Method
ST,
Very clear explanation but I for one got caught. May be I have not got the hang of this method yet. I see 20 TF. There was a clear pivot on 20 TF at 1:20 pm bar. This got taken out by 2 pm bar on 30 TF. Now at that time 30 TF was making 4 bars with HH and HL though weak upward thrust but an up thrust no doubt, in such cases I do not give much value ( I may be wrong here, you gave much value here) to the colour of preceding 30 TF bar. Now at the time of breaking 20 TF pivot at the fag end of 30 min (near 2 pm) it was green again, making another (4 th bar) with HH and HL and also we have two green 60 TF bars with one hammer which is a very strong reversal signal. Now we have two hours of upswing - so I took that pivot though very reluctantly. One saving grace was that I had already taken profits and was carrying my lightest load as the reversal signal was very long ago.
Again my belief that taking pivot on 15/20 TF is very very dicey in this method. I have tripped many times here.
Also one observation, on the way down 4 bars were of uneven lengths, you guys were saved by your SAR at 2 bars rule primarily because the 2nd bar was a wide bar (not wrb but wider than other 3)with Hi at near day's hi. Again my observation in this method is if we have to avoid being whipsawed we have to very careful in bringing the SAR down too much from day's Hi or Lo.
Good going ST. Overall a good day. I reversed and harvested some points on its way down but the tummy churned a bit.
Bee
ST,
Very clear explanation but I for one got caught. May be I have not got the hang of this method yet. I see 20 TF. There was a clear pivot on 20 TF at 1:20 pm bar. This got taken out by 2 pm bar on 30 TF. Now at that time 30 TF was making 4 bars with HH and HL though weak upward thrust but an up thrust no doubt, in such cases I do not give much value ( I may be wrong here, you gave much value here) to the colour of preceding 30 TF bar. Now at the time of breaking 20 TF pivot at the fag end of 30 min (near 2 pm) it was green again, making another (4 th bar) with HH and HL and also we have two green 60 TF bars with one hammer which is a very strong reversal signal. Now we have two hours of upswing - so I took that pivot
though very reluctantly. One saving grace was that I had already taken profits and was carrying my lightest load as the reversal signal was very long ago.Again my belief that taking pivot on 15/20 TF is very very dicey in this method. I have tripped many times here.
Also one observation, on the way down 4 bars were of uneven lengths, you guys were saved by your SAR at 2 bars rule primarily because the 2nd bar was a wide bar (not wrb but wider than other 3)with Hi at near day's hi. Again my observation in this method is if we have to avoid being whipsawed we have to very careful in bringing the SAR down too much from day's Hi or Lo.
Good going ST. Overall a good day. I reversed and harvested some points on its way down but the tummy churned a bit.
Bee
Re: Intraday Miniflow Trades for Today: Saint's Method
Posting todays (05-12-2008 ) 30 min Nifty Futures chart with miniflow trades marked on it.Let us go in the sequence of events :
1) 9:55 To 10:00 First bar H=2793, L 2778
2) 10:00 to 10:30 bar H =2807,L=2769 so with our moving filter,short trade not triggered,the long trade will not trigger for most of us using different moving filters, if your filter triggers it,you are long.
I would like to add here that in this bar,both low and high of 1st bar were violated.So which is the first and which is the second move ??I would require another bar to make a HH or LL to say which side is the first move,up or down,so I am keeping moving filter of first move on both sides.
3) 10:30 to 11:00 bar H=2820,L=2788 So no trade triggered sitting on hand.
4) 11:00 to 11:30 bar by this time we know that the first move was up .We now enter a short trade at 2788 Less second move space or normal space. If someone has missed this trade he can go short below PL on 30 min at 2769 less space.The initial SL was 2821(High of the day) +space
5) After 12:30 bar is complete,we move our SAR down to 2806 +space on 2 bars rule.
6) Then we had up and down moves ,but we do nothing.Some of our friends might have gone long here on 2 bars rule on 15 min but that was wrong.
My chart at EOD is not showing PH on 15,but while trading real time I had seen PH on 15 and some of us may have gone long on the break of this 15 min PH.At the time of break of this pivot,I saw 30 min chart,it was having a red bar preeceeding it so no bullish indication and 60 min was a hammer,so no clear bullish indication here alsnly reversing on 15 min pivots,without higher TF agreeing will result in lot of false starts.
7) We could have added at 2756 less space,or 2726 less space and gradually brought our SAR down to 2795/2788/2773 plus space on completion of each successive bars and finally taken our profits in 2700-2720 range.
A great day with clean trade.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
Dear ST,
Regarding first trade, it depends on filter. For some it is long for some it didn't trigger.
Second trade I fully agree with you.
Regarding third trade, I feel 13:15 candle in 15 min chart is clear lower PH. Hammer in 60 min chart is bullish indication. It is one of the reversal indicators. In 30 min TF, 13:30 bar was red and 14:00 has gone totally green. Hence going long PH+f is I feel correct. But of course, EOD, it has not been proved.
Posting todays (05-12-2008 ) 30 min Nifty Futures chart with miniflow trades marked on it.Let us go in the sequence of events :
1) 9:55 To 10:00 First bar H=2793, L 2778
2) 10:00 to 10:30 bar H =2807,L=2769 so with our moving filter,short trade not triggered,the long trade will not trigger for most of us using different moving filters, if your filter triggers it,you are long.
I would like to add here that in this bar,both low and high of 1st bar were violated.So which is the first and which is the second move ??I would require another bar to make a HH or LL to say which side is the first move,up or down,so I am keeping moving filter of first move on both sides.
3) 10:30 to 11:00 bar H=2820,L=2788 So no trade triggered sitting on hand.
4) 11:00 to 11:30 bar by this time we know that the first move was up .We now enter a short trade at 2788 Less second move space or normal space. If someone has missed this trade he can go short below PL on 30 min at 2769 less space.The initial SL was 2821(High of the day) +space
5) After 12:30 bar is complete,we move our SAR down to 2806 +space on 2 bars rule.
6) Then we had up and down moves ,but we do nothing.Some of our friends might have gone long here on 2 bars rule on 15 min but that was wrong.
My chart at EOD is not showing PH on 15,but while trading real time I had seen PH on 15 and some of us may have gone long on the break of this 15 min PH.At the time of break of this pivot,I saw 30 min chart,it was having a red bar preeceeding it so no bullish indication and 60 min was a hammer,so no clear bullish indication here als
nly reversing on 15 min pivots,without higher TF agreeing will result in lot of false starts.7) We could have added at 2756 less space,or 2726 less space and gradually brought our SAR down to 2795/2788/2773 plus space on completion of each successive bars and finally taken our profits in 2700-2720 range.
A great day with clean trade.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
Regarding first trade, it depends on filter. For some it is long for some it didn't trigger.
Second trade I fully agree with you.
Regarding third trade, I feel 13:15 candle in 15 min chart is clear lower PH. Hammer in 60 min chart is bullish indication. It is one of the reversal indicators. In 30 min TF, 13:30 bar was red and 14:00 has gone totally green. Hence going long PH+f is I feel correct. But of course, EOD, it has not been proved.
Re: Saint's Intraday Miniflow - live discussion
yes. It is a pivot. In my opinion, it was supported by 30 min TF from 13:30 red bar to green bar and also bottom tailing bullish bar in 60 in TF. At the EOD, because of failed break out, one can say it is wrong.
Is the 12:45 pm bar on 15 minute chart a pivot?
I got confused because of that and reversed to long there
I got confused because of that and reversed to long there
Re: Intraday Miniflow Trades for Today: Saint's Method
Posting todays (05-12-2008 ) 30 min Nifty Futures chart with miniflow trades marked on it.Let us go in the sequence of events :
6) Then we had up and down moves ,but we do nothing.Some of our friends might have gone long here on 2 bars rule on 15 min but that was wrong.
My chart at EOD is not showing PH on 15,but while trading real time I had seen PH on 15 and some of us may have gone long on the break of this 15 min PH.At the time of break of this pivot,I saw 30 min chart,it was having a red bar preeceeding it so no bullish indication and 60 min was a hammer,so no clear bullish indication here alsnly reversing on 15 min pivots,without higher TF agreeing will result in lot of false starts.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
ST,
Clear lower PH formed at 13:20 and as per 30mt TF at 14:00, going to long at the break of PH+filter seems to be correct.
Posting todays (05-12-2008 ) 30 min Nifty Futures chart with miniflow trades marked on it.Let us go in the sequence of events :
6) Then we had up and down moves ,but we do nothing.Some of our friends might have gone long here on 2 bars rule on 15 min but that was wrong.
My chart at EOD is not showing PH on 15,but while trading real time I had seen PH on 15 and some of us may have gone long on the break of this 15 min PH.At the time of break of this pivot,I saw 30 min chart,it was having a red bar preeceeding it so no bullish indication and 60 min was a hammer,so no clear bullish indication here als
nly reversing on 15 min pivots,without higher TF agreeing will result in lot of false starts.Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
Clear lower PH formed at 13:20 and as per 30mt TF at 14:00, going to long at the break of PH+filter seems to be correct.
Re: Intraday Miniflow Trades for Today: Saint's Method
Yes uthuman,agreed clear PH formed at 13:20 and the same was broken in 2:00 bar.But see the 30 min bar preeceeding this breakout this was a red candle not indicative of strength. I always require a strong bar on 60 or 30 preeceeding this breakout bar. At 2:00 the bar closes strong then I would reverse at a higher PH on 15 if it was there and if broken after 2:00. The preeceeding bar test has kept me out of many false start trades.I require some strong indication such as taking out the top of preeceeding WRB,closing above 50 % of last WRB and then breaking the high of resting bar or some similar strong indications to reverse on 15 min PH,not a weak and wavering white candle which gets negated in no time .
And we are not saying that because this 15 min breakout did not work.This was decided while the market action was going on and many TJ members also took the same view and this decision proved right. We have to train our eyes to see the amalgamation of various timeframes to move SAR to 15 PH.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
Yes uthuman,agreed clear PH formed at 13:20 and the same was broken in 2:00 bar.But see the 30 min bar preeceeding this breakout this was a red candle not indicative of strength. I always require a strong bar on 60 or 30 preeceeding this breakout bar. At 2:00 the bar closes strong then I would reverse at a higher PH on 15 if it was there and if broken after 2:00. The preeceeding bar test has kept me out of many false start trades.I require some strong indication such as taking out the top of preeceeding WRB,closing above 50 % of last WRB and then breaking the high of resting bar or some similar strong indications to reverse on 15 min PH,not a weak and wavering white candle which gets negated in no time .
And we are not saying that because this 15 min breakout did not work.This was decided while the market action was going on and many TJ members also took the same view and this decision proved right. We have to train our eyes to see the amalgamation of various timeframes to move SAR to 15 PH.
Best Wishes,
Smart_trade
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