High Profit EOD based option Strategy for Advanced Traders

ananths

Well-Known Member
#81
Dear Pannalal,
Your recommended strategy was based on Thursday's EOD level. Since nifty opened with a big gap up and remained at more than 1% higher throughout the day, would it have been prudent to take position around 3 pm as follows:
Buy 6700CE @ 12.35
Sell 6400CE @ 65.6
Sell 6500CE @ 39.25

This would have given 92.5 points and the BEP would have been 6400+92.5=6492.5.
This would have given a little less profit but it would have been a safer trade.
Do you agree?
Hi gmt900, Pannalalji,

I assume your plan is to exit when market comes near the first short strike price. Then what is the need of buying 6700CE? If market reaches quickly to 6400, this will be a losing position and delta of 6700 is very low it wont cover much. If market takes time to reach 6400, theta will work against 6700CE. So just wondering why we need OTM call? :thumb:
 

pannalal

Well-Known Member
#82
Hi gmt900, Pannalalji,

I assume your plan is to exit when market comes near the first short strike price. Then what is the need of buying 6700CE? If market reaches quickly to 6400, this will be a losing position and delta of 6700 is very low it wont cover much. If market takes time to reach 6400, theta will work against 6700CE. So just wondering why we need OTM call? :thumb:
Just to have some protection if Nifty goes up abruptly. Like it went up by 650 points in 40 seconds on 18th May 2009. on this day, the first circuit of 15% was hit in 30 seconds and second upper circuit of 5% was hit in next 10 seconds, then trading was stopped both in NSE and BSE. So, some protection in such extreme situation.:)
 

SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
#83
I think we can argue till cows come home and still nifty will do what it wants to do and nobody will have a hint of what it will do.
Like Pannalal says one can close the position before the election results if one wants to. More importantly, it depends on what the nifty level is on 7 Dec.
BTW two questions;
Will it be a good idea to get out of the trade on 7th and re enter after results, if it mitigates the risk?
Is it possible to guess the quantum of loss if there is a huge bump up on nifty after the results?
While I fully understand and agree with the concerns expressed by the members about the risks in such trades, I tend to agree more with Pannalal's thinking that unless one is willing to take risk you can't make money in trading.
" How much risk" is an individual decision
I have some better idea if one thinks there would be huge gap up after election result

there are two choices
1) close all Position before election results and re initiate the Position after results
2) make some delta adjustments

I would prefer second choice since it involves less transaction charges like taxes and brokerages

since the Portfolio has 3 Positions it need 6 Transaction to close and re enter

instead if one calculate the delta then one can easily balance the delta for one day. since the Prime goal of this Strategy is simply to eat time value one can sacrifice one day time value to protect the capital

only thing needed is to calculate the net delta on 7th dec

if it is -0.5 then one can buy at the money call options or if -0.7 then on can buy some in the money call option

for example assuming nifty index has value 6250 on 7th dec

since it is below our stop loss level then delta would be around( By approx -0.7 )

to protect then whole portfolio one can buy 6150 CE or 6200CE
since the holding period of these protective call is shorter one can continue to hold the Portfolio until his stop loss reaches if any fall and no huge up movement then he need to book some small loss as premium in protective call options
 

gmt900

Well-Known Member
#84
I have some better idea if one thinks there would be huge gap up after election result

there are two choices
1) close all Position before election results and re initiate the Position after results
2) make some delta adjustments

I would prefer second choice since it involves less transaction charges like taxes and brokerages

since the Portfolio has 3 Positions it need 6 Transaction to close and re enter

instead if one calculate the delta then one can easily balance the delta for one day. since the Prime goal of this Strategy is simply to eat time value one can sacrifice one day time value to protect the capital

only thing needed is to calculate the net delta on 7th dec

if it is -0.5 then one can buy at the money call options or if -0.7 then on can buy some in the money call option

for example assuming nifty index has value 6250 on 7th dec

since it is below our stop loss level then delta would be around( By approx -0.7 )

to protect then whole portfolio one can buy 6150 CE or 6200CE
since the holding period of these protective call is shorter one can continue to hold the Portfolio until his stop loss reaches if any fall and no huge up movement then he need to book some small loss as premium in protective call options
While Saravanan was typing his idea, I was typing my thoughts as follows :

I have been thinking about Pannalal’s strategy vis a vis other option strategies I have used in last one year. I am giving below my subjective thoughts for members to comment.

If one uses short strangle one is sure of max profit, but the losses would be unlimited unless one uses delta neutral strategy which could be easier said than done for beginners.

If one uses long condors, one is sure of both max profit as well as max loss.

Credit and debit spreads are safer option but unless one can guage the trend properly, will not give good profits.

In case of Pannalal’s strategy ( I don’t know whether it has a generic name), profit is handsome but one is not sure of losses one may have to incur if market goes against you. If the method indeed can give profits for say 10 months in a year, losses in 2 months should be small enough to give an overall decent profit. I am presuming Pannalal would be giving recommended trades at least for one year.

Considering the present case, let us assume one has got 140 points by entering 6600CE/6400CE/6300CE trade. Nifty is at 6176. If one wants to close trade at loss in case nifty spot crosses 6350 during next week (+174 points), one is not sure of the quantum of loss since it will depend on the time of the week. During early part it will be more and later in the week it will be lesser. How much ? Difficult to assess.

If one wants to adjust trade instead of accepting loss, I think it will be easier to do than delta neutral strategy .One can go long on nifty future say between 6200 and 6350 depending on one’s judgement and keep a stop loss of say 40 points. That will give insurance in case nifty moves up. This insurance will cost of 40 points and will ensure profit of 100 points. In fact if one goes long on NF @ 6200 with a stoploss of 40 points, one will be fairly safe since if nifty goes below 6160, chances of losses would be even lesser. In case nifty moves up to say 6250 and comes down in the following week, one can square off NF without loss.

If one does not take any action even after nifty starts moving up, one is safe if nifty remains below 6440 by expiry.

Unlike long condor, it will difficult to see graphic picture on OptionsOracle after one goes long on NF.

If one gets 140 points at the end of series it is 7000/40000 X100= 17.5% profit. If one gets 100 points, it is 5000/40000X100= 12.5% profit. Even if one slips in adjusting trade profit would be still in excess of 5%.
So it may be worthwhile adjusting the trade instead of accepting loss .
 

SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
#85
While Saravanan was typing his idea, I was typing my thoughts as follows :

I have been thinking about Pannalal’s strategy vis a vis other option strategies I have used in last one year. I am giving below my subjective thoughts for members to comment.

If one uses short strangle one is sure of max profit, but the losses would be unlimited unless one uses delta neutral strategy which could be easier said than done for beginners.

If one uses long condors, one is sure of both max profit as well as max loss.

Credit and debit spreads are safer option but unless one can guage the trend properly, will not give good profits.

In case of Pannalal’s strategy ( I don’t know whether it has a generic name), profit is handsome but one is not sure of losses one may have to incur if market goes against you. If the method indeed can give profits for say 10 months in a year, losses in 2 months should be small enough to give an overall decent profit. I am presuming Pannalal would be giving recommended trades at least for one year.

Considering the present case, let us assume one has got 140 points by entering 6600CE/6400CE/6300CE trade. Nifty is at 6176. If one wants to close trade at loss in case nifty spot crosses 6350 during next week (+174 points), one is not sure of the quantum of loss since it will depend on the time of the week. During early part it will be more and later in the week it will be lesser. How much ? Difficult to assess.

If one wants to adjust trade instead of accepting loss, I think it will be easier to do than delta neutral strategy .One can go long on nifty future say between 6200 and 6350 depending on one’s judgement and keep a stop loss of say 40 points. That will give insurance in case nifty moves up. This insurance will cost of 40 points and will ensure profit of 100 points. In fact if one goes long on NF @ 6200 with a stoploss of 40 points, one will be fairly safe since if nifty goes below 6160, chances of losses would be even lesser. In case nifty moves up to say 6250 and comes down in the following week, one can square off NF without loss.

If one does not take any action even after nifty starts moving up, one is safe if nifty remains below 6440 by expiry.

Unlike long condor, it will difficult to see graphic picture on OptionsOracle after one goes long on NF.

If one gets 140 points at the end of series it is 7000/40000 X100= 17.5% profit. If one gets 100 points, it is 5000/40000X100= 12.5% profit. Even if one slips in adjusting trade profit would be still in excess of 5%.
So it may be worthwhile adjusting the trade instead of accepting loss .
I am focusing only on Pannalal’s strategy other condor debit are Credit Spread is out of the scope of this thread

moreover the I am focusing only on protection against some sudden gap up due to election results

Adjusting the Portfolio using future is more risky then adjusting with call option

if one prefers future hedging with future with 40 Points Stop then there no gurantee that prices volatility makes first hit the stop loss then it resumes upward journey

if one has a solution to handle the Problem then he can contiues with future hedging and invite more comments from other member also:thumb:
 

gmt900

Well-Known Member
#86
I am focusing only on Pannalal’s strategy other condor debit are Credit Spread is out of the scope of this thread

moreover the I am focusing only on protection against some sudden gap up due to election results

Adjusting the Portfolio using future is more risky then adjusting with call option

if one prefers future hedging with future with 40 Points Stop then there no gurantee that prices volatility makes first hit the stop loss then it resumes upward journey
if one has a solution to handle the Problem then he can contiues with future hedging and invite more comments from other member also:thumb:
I agree with this argument. However, my point is, if one's intention is not to book loss in this trade and since the inflow is healthy 140 points, one can afford to hedge the trade by going long on NF even without waiting for nifty to reach 6350 as Pannalal suggested. You have a cushion of 140 points for NF on the downside.
 

SaravananKS

Well-Known Member
#87
Holding and Trading options Spreads is always complicated then simple Equity and Future Holding
Some time it confuses even for experienced traders. For example we use two dimensional chart to visualize the price movement of particular script if one want visualize options Spread Equity in chart it requires minimum 5 Dimensional chart. An Normal Human eye can recognize only up to three Dimension….. That is the Reason why Options Spread is quit Complicated then simple future trading
So Plotting Future Projection chart is quit difficult task that’s why many Options analze software gives an estimation only on expiry day But in Real time the Equity curve of an options Spread volatiles drastically since Forecasting it quit complicated job I have Posted the Pannlal last Spread Cost Chart with Nifty Spot
That will be usefull for one to estimate how the Spread Reacts with nifty price movement



Pannlal Suggested the Spread based on 28.11.2013 Prices on 29.11.2013 Nifty rose nearly 84 Points the Spread Credit also Increased 45 Points on 29.11.2013 Last Price the Delta it self has changed

Here is last 30 Days price movement of this Spread with Nifty Spot



if one Watch the above chart one can estimate the Limitation of time value in this Spread
 

pannalal

Well-Known Member
#89
I agree with this argument. However, my point is, if one's intention is not to book loss in this trade and since the inflow is healthy 140 points, one can afford to hedge the trade by going long on NF even without waiting for nifty to reach 6350 as Pannalal suggested. You have a cushion of 140 points for NF on the downside.
My opinion is very simple. If Nifty is moving with great pace (starting half an hour watch the pace), then at any point you can go long (with proper stop loss). As soon as you get sufficient point, you can close the option trade except long leg. The basic idea is to earn. However, the problem is if Nifty keep touching stop loss and you keep losing points, then there is a risk. So, this strategy is only for those who are well experienced. As far as closing the trade before election result, I shall give 2-3 strategies on 5th December. As, some of the members predicting big Nifty movement after Election result, we should come out of the trade to avoid huge loss. Different people have different styles, so they can choose one of the strategy as per their liking and can execute it on 6th December.
 
Last edited:

pannalal

Well-Known Member
#90
I have some better idea if one thinks there would be huge gap up after election result

since the Portfolio has 3 Positions it need 6 Transaction to close and re enter
I think closing two short legs are good enough. The long leg whether it 6600 CE or 6700 CE need not be closed. If Nifty really moves up say to 7000 (after election result), you will get 400 or 300 points. If it remains below 6600 or 6700, it will expire worthless. Any way, the points paid are 12-15 points. It is OK.:)
 

Similar threads