Low Risk Options Trading Strategy - Option Spreads

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AW10

Well-Known Member
Hi Aw10,Danpick,smart_trade.Linkon and all senior people

first of all thanks for ur wonderful support to all traders.

here i am working a stragegy for me..

Basically i got the idea from some forum (some of them already discussed here)

Am testing how to make it as a plan and do it as discpline way to earn consitently.

2 days back i initated the trade(Paper trade)

2 days back nifty is 4775
so i choose a call to sell around 200 points in difference from current level same for put also.. like this same thing for every 2 weeks in a month.

sold 4600 call at 215
sold 5000 put at 260

total collecting premiums is 475

Now i want to play Nifty futures as a hedging ..

As my plan go long above 4800 (stoploss 4795)
and short below 4750 (stoploss 4755)

as of now i iniated 4 times trade in niftyfutures (loss 20 points)

no trading from 3 to 3.30..

(Here i need ur advice
can i proceed like this or nifty future as a seperate entity )
if it is seperate means based what levels sir?

here max loss i can incur is 100 points
and a profit am looking is 150 points
risk reward is 1.5 : 1

Time Period is 2 weeks..

for the first week present month options

for the 3rd week position next month options

Am in a correct path?
wat thing i should change in a plan
how to cope up with gap up and gap down
can i do trading in options alone with hedging in options )

My capital for this is 1 lakh
broker : Angel.


can u ppl give ur suggestion and feedback how to make this as a plan for me not only for me it will be helpful for all others.


Expect ur valuable ideas ...
Hi positionaltrader. Not sure if you have checked this post or not.
Somedays back same idea was brought up here and I gave my reply in this post.

http://www.traderji.com/options/305...ng-strategy-option-spreads-24.html#post402050

Bottomline, is with strategy, your P&L at the end of the month will depend upon how good is your NF trading ? Start looking at Short Strangle trade seperate from variuos NF trades you are going to take.. and observe yourself.

feel free to share your views/observations.. or any new doubt for discussion.

Happy Trading
 
Hi AW10,

Thanks for ur quick reply..

I have seen the previous post now ..

from there i came to know its all depends on how we play nifty future & as u said in previos post

u mention leaving naked short is alwatys a huge risk.
My point is how to reduce this risk.

small idea may be silly one instead the levels i mention long above 4800 and short 4750

we will do bull call and bear put spread when ever nifty come to 4850 and 4700 range. with stoploss of 10 points in options spread.

ur suggestions ? else mention how to proceed nifty future in better way to reduce the risk.
 
Hi AW10,

I bought Feb 4700Put and Feb 4800 Call.

The reason for buying this combination is as the Market trend has started down I considered buying that Put.. The call was bought to hedge..

Suggest your opinion on this ..

JD
 
Hi AW10,

I bought Feb 4700Put and Feb 4800 Call.

The reason for buying this combination is as the Market trend has started down I considered buying that Put.. The call was bought to hedge..

Suggest your opinion on this ..

JD
Assuming that you bought the strangle at EOD (82/- each), your total outflow is 164 points. You will make money only when Nifty goes below 4536 or above 4964. You will need a big movement on either side of today's close to come into money. If Nifty keeps moving in a 100 point range on either side the time decay will start corroding the value of the strangle.

Have a look at the Spreads that AW10 has dealt with in so much detail for less risky options trades. This is my view, perhaps AW10 can give a different take.
 
Assuming that you bought the strangle at EOD (82/- each), your total outflow is 164 points. You will make money only when Nifty goes below 4536 or above 4964. You will need a big movement on either side of today's close to come into money. If Nifty keeps moving in a 100 point range on either side the time decay will start corroding the value of the strangle.

Have a look at the Spreads that AW10 has dealt with in so much detail for less risky options trades. This is my view, perhaps AW10 can give a different take.
Thank you trader trends.. for your reply..

I did buy at EOD., Yet to get the grasps of the option strategies.. Planning to close one leg depending on the direction nifty takes ... Any suggestions to reduce loss in this..

JD
 

AW10

Well-Known Member
Hi AW10,
u mention leaving naked short is alwatys a huge risk.

My point is how to reduce this risk.
Positionaltrader. To reduce the risk, you will have to buy further OTM options.
In the example where u sold 4600 Call, and 5000 PUT, both are ITM strikes and collected 475 points for you. It is guranteed that u have to give back 400 points (difference between both strikes) on settlement. So you are left with only 75 rs of max profit.

So to reduce the risk, when u buy further OTM options, say 4500 PUT or 5100 CALL, you will be compromising few more points of profit from remaining 75.
Personally, I don't see much value left in the trade now (maybe 50 points or so after adjusting for brokerage as well). It is still a decent low risk return. But in my opinion, one can still do better by trading directional spreads.

Income generation strategies generally try to look at the range where market will not reach.. and then try to collect premium from them.
Say if u feel that market is going to be between 4600 to 5000 for rest of Feb.
then u can sell 4500 Put @33 and 5000 Call @23 and collect 56 Rs. As long as mkt remains in this range, u keep whole of 56. You start making loss only when market falls below 4500-56 = 4444 or goes above 5000+56 = 5056.
That means, u have buffer of almost 250 to 300 points i.e. 5% to 6%on either side. In normal behaviour of market, even in worst case, this limit will not be hit. so u can afford to go unhedged on this but decide the level, if crossed, then you will take action .. say if mkt comes in 100 or 150 points of your breakeven point. Till then, no decision, no action. Just leave the position alone and timedecay to work for you.

Alternatively, u may like to buy the protective put at 4400 level right now and pay 20 rs from 56 collected. This will give u peace of mind but reduce your profitability by 40%.

This is just one of the approach. But you can come out with many others.

small idea may be silly one instead the levels i mention long above 4800 and short 4750

we will do bull call and bear put spread when ever nifty come to 4850 and 4700 range. with stoploss of 10 points in options spread.
Decisoin to take bull call spread does not depend on market level. But it depends on finding the right opporunity and right reward risk ratio for the spread that is acceptable to you.

Options position like spread/ short straddle /short strangle etc need time to show the result. So it is better to formulate your strategy carefully, specially the exit points.. and test them/ simulate them with historical data or atleast on paper trade.

ur suggestions ? else mention how to proceed nifty future in better way to reduce the risk.
You can use NFutures to manage risk during market hours only. It will not be able to hedge you for Gap situations. On the contrary, you might get caught on the wrong NF position with gap and end up loosing. During mkt hours, you can put stop trigger order for NF position to save u from a move beyond your decision points.

Hope this gives u some pointers to dig more into this topic.
Happy Trading.
 

AW10

Well-Known Member
Hi AW10,

I bought Feb 4700Put and Feb 4800 Call.

The reason for buying this combination is as the Market trend has started down I considered buying that Put.. The call was bought to hedge..

Suggest your opinion on this ..

JD
Assuming that you bought the strangle at EOD (82/- each), your total outflow is 164 points. You will make money only when Nifty goes below 4536 or above 4964. You will need a big movement on either side of today's close to come into money. If Nifty keeps moving in a 100 point range on either side the time decay will start corroding the value of the strangle.

Have a look at the Spreads that AW10 has dealt with in so much detail for less risky options trades. This is my view, perhaps AW10 can give a different take.
JD I agree with Treder.Trends reply. Buying PUT or CALL are directional strategy and they need market to move in your favour.
I don't agree with the approach of "Buying a CALL to hedge" cause
1) now you will be loosing on 2 options due to time decay.
2) even if market falls from here, as per your initial trade, you will be loosing in CALL leg. Net effect, u will not gain much overall i.e. when you had right short entry, you have limited yourself from making profit.
3) Even if market goes up and your call leg saves you.. but you are now loosing in PUT. Again Net effect u will not gain much overall and limited yourself from making profit.

If you are not confident about your entry, then Probably you would have been better off not taking any trade.

I prefer to Short 4600 PUT to hedge long put. It would have converted your Long 4700 Put to 4600-4700 bearish PUT. Reasons are
1) So if market goes down as per your reading, this whole position will win at slower rate. But 4700 put will always win more the 4600 put giving u net win when market falls. (I am not giving technicalities of this behaviour to keep my reply simple)
2) If market goes up, then both puts will loose value. 4600 put will loose more value then 4700 put.. hence limiting your loss.
3) If tomorrow market stucks in narrow range but bias is still bearish.. then u have no profit/no loss due to time decay. Cause one one leg, you will loose due to time decay but on other leg you will win due to time decay.

So you have win-win in almost all 3 posible market behaviour tomorrow.
But the approach that u have take (" and many ignorant option traders out there take i.e. buy call to hedge PUT position") is loose-loose in almost all 3 cases.

Hope this is eye opener for you now. Please read more spreads in first few posts of this thread and know what u are doing.

Happy Trading
 
JD I agree with Treder.Trends reply. Buying PUT or CALL are directional strategy and they need market to move in your favour.
I don't agree with the approach of "Buying a CALL to hedge" cause
1) now you will be loosing on 2 options due to time decay.
2) even if market falls from here, as per your initial trade, you will be loosing in CALL leg. Net effect, u will not gain much overall i.e. when you had right short entry, you have limited yourself from making profit.
3) Even if market goes up and your call leg saves you.. but you are now loosing in PUT. Again Net effect u will not gain much overall and limited yourself from making profit.

If you are not confident about your entry, then Probably you would have been better off not taking any trade.

I prefer to Short 4600 PUT to hedge long put. It would have converted your Long 4700 Put to 4600-4700 bearish PUT. Reasons are
1) So if market goes down as per your reading, this whole position will win at slower rate. But 4700 put will always win more the 4600 put giving u net win when market falls. (I am not giving technicalities of this behaviour to keep my reply simple)
2) If market goes up, then both puts will loose value. 4600 put will loose more value then 4700 put.. hence limiting your loss.
3) If tomorrow market stucks in narrow range but bias is still bearish.. then u have no profit/no loss due to time decay. Cause one one leg, you will loose due to time decay but on other leg you will win due to time decay.

So you have win-win in almost all 3 posible market behaviour tomorrow.
But the approach that u have take (" and many ignorant option traders out there take i.e. buy call to hedge PUT position") is loose-loose in almost all 3 cases.

Hope this is eye opener for you now. Please read more spreads in first few posts of this thread and know what u are doing.

Happy Trading
Thank you AW10 for the detailed reply.. It was really an eyeopener..

Need one suggestion... from you..

With the mindset of market going down, I have closed my 4800 call the next day... Now I am left with the Feb 4700 PUT, which is in loss. Since we have two weeks more.. what stratedy should I follow to minimise my loss.

JD

JD
 
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