M6 - Man, Mind, Money, Markets, Method & Madness

DSM

Well-Known Member
One great thing about the internet is that information and knowledge becomes more accessable, and if we can look at it at a time of our choosing and convenience, its an additional bonus. To that effect, I have created a mail id specifically, where I subscribe to market related mailers, which come to me and I read when I want to. Here's one sharing some excerpts.

2 Most Common Investing Mistakes - Sam Seiden

http://lessons.tradingacademy.com/article/2-most-common-investing-mistakes/

The world of market speculating is made up of everyone from the active day trader to the longer term investor, speculating in all kinds of markets and asset classes, people all around the globe pushing buy and sell buttons each day in hopes of achieving income and wealth. Never in history has there been so many books written and so much information on the internet on how to speculate in markets for traders and investors. Each weekend in many cities around the world, there are educational seminars given on how to “get rich” from trading. With so much education and information on how to properly speculate in markets out there, why is it that most short term traders lose money and most long term investors never achieve long term financial goals? How can this be? The answer is twofold and is the focus of this piece.

First, it’s because of most of the books and seminars. Most books and seminars are loaded with conventional Technical and Fundamental analysis which tends to teach you how to buy when everyone else buys and sell when everyone else sells (herd mentality) which is high risk, low reward, and low probability. Conventional Technical analysis is based on pattern recognition that has people buying after price has rallied and also offers buy and sell signals based on indicators and oscillators that always lag price which means high risk buying and selling. Conventional Fundamental analysis offers buy signals only after good news is present and company numbers are strong. Where do you think the price of a stock is by the time this good news is offered to you? If you guessed high, you’re correct almost always. The only way to be consistently profitable when buying and selling in markets is to have a strategy that has people buying after you buy, at higher prices than you paid and selling after you sell, at lower prices than you sold at. Conventional Technical and Fundamental analysis does not help us in this regard. The basic principles of these two ways of thinking ensure you will buy and sell with the herd, when it’s too late which means high risk and NO EDGE. If proper market speculating was as easy as reading a book, wouldn’t everyone be millionaires?

The second reason most people lose money in the global trading markets which is really part of reason number one is that they throw all simple logic out the window. When you go to buy a car and you’re at the dealership and see the car you have your heart set on, you see the price and its $20,000. Do you go to the dealer and say; “I like this $20,000 car so much, I want to pay you $30,000 for it.” Of course you don’t do that, you likely offer $17,000 or something like that. In trading, most people wait for confirmation of higher prices and then buy which is the opposite of how they buy things outside of trading, this makes no sense. I once spoke to a gentleman. He approached me and said he wanted to learn how to trade. My first question was, “What do you do for a living now?” He happened to own and run a pizza chain that he had just sold. As soon as he said that, I knew he had the best chance at doing this because he already knew how to make money buying and selling. In fact, there was nothing about buying and selling in a market that I could teach him that he didn’t already know; I will explain this in a minute. Our first lesson went like this… I asked him to tell me about his business and he did. He explained that the whole business comes down to the price of cheese. I asked him three simple questions: 1) What is the average price of cheese? “Around $2.00 a pound,” he said. 2) If the cheese you buy is selling at $4.00 a pound, how much will you buy? He said, “As much as I need.” 3) If the cheese is selling at $1.00 a pound, how much will you buy? “As much as I can and store it,” he said. I then told him that he was already a great trader and that there was nothing I could teach him about trading that he didn’t already know. What I could show him however is EXACLTY what this proper buying and selling looks like on a price chart. The most important part of today’s article for you to understand is this:

The more you can bring the mind set and rules that you use each day to purchase everyday items at the grocery store, appliance store, and so on into your market speculating, the better you will do. Do you ever use coupons to save some money? If you do, you already know how to buy at a low price. Take that same exact mind set and action into your trading world. The mass illusion is that proper trading and investing is somehow different than how we properly buy and sell things in everyday life. Truth is, there is no difference.

Many so-called professionals like to complicate the process with smoke, mirrors, curtains, and sleight of hand. They do this to trick you so that you will transfer some of your account, into theirs, without you realizing it. The key for you is to keep everything “real.” Use your simple logic filter to ensure you will not lose some or all of your account to illusion.



In the upper left corner of this screen shot, we see a market that is falling fast and reaching what our strategy determined to be an objective demand zone (wholesale prices). Most people would not want to buy in that circled area because there is a downtrend and every book says to never by in a downtrend. There was also some bad news causing price to crash which would make people very nervous when buying at that level. So, most people would not only not buy, some actually sold in that circled area. That is a chart of the Euro. What if I changed the market and made it the market for a SMART TV? If you saw price decline like that would you be more inclined to buy? Would you be afraid to buy on that decline or would you be very excited? Of course we would be thrilled to buy that TV at a discount. Why then does just about everyone on the planet have opposite feelings or emotions with these two examples. The answer is simple, one is a financial market and the other is an example of anything else we buy and sell in life. Furthermore, you have been brainwashed to think that how you make money buying and selling in a financial market as a trader or investor is somehow different from how you make money buying and selling anything in life.

The chart in the middle, on the bottom is the result of that trade. Price turned higher, giving us a low risk profit on that trading opportunity. The reality is that the Euro was on sale for a short period of time and there was only a small amount for sale at that price meaning once they were all bought, price would rise. The chart gives us all this information if you understand market timing supply and demand strategy.

2 Mistakes the Novice Trader/Investor Made

* The seller sold to us AFTER a decline in price.

* They sold to us at a price level where the chart told us, demand exceeded supply.


These are the two most common investing mistakes the masses commit around the world which is why most active traders lose money and most long term investors never come close to achieving their financial goals. There is nothing wrong with following the rules of a trading book, just make sure you are the author and that your strategy has you buying at wholesale prices and selling at retail prices. To do this, start with using all the powerful buying and selling knowledge you already possess and use on a daily basis outside of the trading world. Bring this key but simple strategy into trading and you will soon be spotting “blue light specials” all over the place. Never forget, how you make money buying and selling anything in life is EXACTLY how you make money buying and selling in the financial markets.
 

amitrandive

Well-Known Member
I once spoke to a gentleman. He approached me and said he wanted to learn how to trade. My first question was, “What do you do for a living now?” He happened to own and run a pizza chain that he had just sold. As soon as he said that, I knew he had the best chance at doing this because he already knew how to make money buying and selling. In fact, there was nothing about buying and selling in a market that I could teach him that he didn’t already know; I will explain this in a minute. Our first lesson went like this… I asked him to tell me about his business and he did. He explained that the whole business comes down to the price of cheese. I asked him three simple questions: 1) What is the average price of cheese? “Around $2.00 a pound,” he said. 2) If the cheese you buy is selling at $4.00 a pound, how much will you buy? He said, “As much as I need.” 3) If the cheese is selling at $1.00 a pound, how much will you buy? “As much as I can and store it,” he said. I then told him that he was already a great trader and that there was nothing I could teach him about trading that he didn’t already know. What I could show him however is EXACLTY what this proper buying and selling looks like on a price chart.

This is a very sound piece of advice on how to run a business and speculate.

The more you can bring the mind set and rules that you use each day to purchase everyday items at the grocery store, appliance store, and so on into your market speculating, the better you will do. Do you ever use coupons to save some money? If you do, you already know how to buy at a low price. Take that same exact mind set and action into your trading world. The mass illusion is that proper trading and investing is somehow different than how we properly buy and sell things in everyday life. Truth is, there is no difference.

A classic analogy on discount buying and buying great value stocks.

In the upper left corner of this screen shot, we see a market that is falling fast and reaching what our strategy determined to be an objective demand zone (wholesale prices). Most people would not want to buy in that circled area because there is a downtrend and every book says to never by in a downtrend. There was also some bad news causing price to crash which would make people very nervous when buying at that level. So, most people would not only not buy, some actually sold in that circled area. That is a chart of the Euro. What if I changed the market and made it the market for a SMART TV? If you saw price decline like that would you be more inclined to buy? Would you be afraid to buy on that decline or would you be very excited? Of course we would be thrilled to buy that TV at a discount. Why then does just about everyone on the planet have opposite feelings or emotions with these two examples. The answer is simple, one is a financial market and the other is an example of anything else we buy and sell in life. Furthermore, you have been brainwashed to think that how you make money buying and selling in a financial market as a trader or investor is somehow different from how you make money buying and selling anything in life.

A beautiful explanation of Warren Buffet's quotes " Be Greedy when others are fearful and be fearful when others are greedy".


There is nothing wrong with following the rules of a trading book, just make sure you are the author and that your strategy has you buying at wholesale prices and selling at retail prices. To do this, start with using all the powerful buying and selling knowledge you already possess and use on a daily basis outside of the trading world. Bring this key but simple strategy into trading and you will soon be spotting “blue light specials” all over the place. Never forget, how you make money buying and selling anything in life is EXACTLY how you make money buying and selling in the financial markets.

A million dollar advice for all persons in sales and Traders.
DSM

Thanks for the wonderful post.I have highlighted my learning's from this post.
:clap:
 
Last edited:

DSM

Well-Known Member
Some boiler room operators from Indore somehow have got my no, and each month, I get an offer for their paid tip service, which I keep on declining. Today, got an SMS at 12:07 from one OMSTOCK : Intraday cash buy 1 to 10 lac lac qty. of BSE code : **** Patidar Buildcon Ltd. (Yeah, right, 'Con is already built in the company name) :) :) :) CMP 207/208 Target 225, 230 in just a few minutes. The highest the script touched was 209.80 and at 12:42 went into a free fall of 15% to close below 191.

This is just a reminder to a trader/investor who relies on others tips to make money that he will most likely lose it and what seems like a promise of quick buck will burn a hole in his pocket. Unfortunately some people will learn this lesson the hard way.
 

amitrandive

Well-Known Member
Some boiler room operators from Indore somehow have got my no, and each month, I get an offer for their paid tip service, which I keep on declining. Today, got an SMS at 12:07 from one OMSTOCK : Intraday cash buy 1 to 10 lac lac qty. of BSE code : **** Patidar Buildcon Ltd. (Yeah, right, 'Con is already built in the company name) :) :) :) CMP 207/208 Target 225, 230 in just a few minutes. The highest the script touched was 209.80 and at 12:42 went into a free fall of 15% to close below 191.

This is just a reminder to a trader/investor who relies on others tips to make money that he will most likely lose it and what seems like a promise of quick buck will burn a hole in his pocket. Unfortunately some people will learn this lesson the hard way.
DSM

I also got the same message yesterday from OMSTOCK.On every expiry I get messages from LM-Jackpot about buying huge quantities of OTM options for a huge intraday profit target.

I guess the people who are sending these messages want to dump their stock on gullible traders and themselves want to get out of their positions.:annoyed:

I have generally observed that the Bid and Ask changes drastically after an hour of receiving these messages.
 

augubhai

Well-Known Member
Some boiler room operators from Indore somehow have got my no, and each month, I get an offer for their paid tip service, which I keep on declining. Today, got an SMS at 12:07 from one OMSTOCK : Intraday cash buy 1 to 10 lac lac qty. of BSE code : **** Patidar Buildcon Ltd. (Yeah, right, 'Con is already built in the company name) :) :) :) CMP 207/208 Target 225, 230 in just a few minutes. The highest the script touched was 209.80 and at 12:42 went into a free fall of 15% to close below 191.

This is just a reminder to a trader/investor who relies on others tips to make money that he will most likely lose it and what seems like a promise of quick buck will burn a hole in his pocket. Unfortunately some people will learn this lesson the hard way.
I got 2 messages about Patidar today. I did not read, just deleted it :)... Seems like they got a contract to get bakras.

Every month, I get 2-3 calls from some "consultancy" from Indore.
 

DSM

Well-Known Member
Guess the right thing to do was to take the opposite position.... So three unrelated traders already got the same message. How much does it cost to send an SMS? What is the Cost/benefit payoff? For a couple of thousands of bucks, somebody made possibly tens of lacks or crores of rupees. Wanted to reply back : Maybe you made a quick buck today, which you will enjoy for a short time, but you will get the curses for life or an eternity from the people who trusted you.... While you can partly blame somebody for following the call... they did not ask for it, but rather were enticed into a well planned trap. It is like volunteering to show somebody the direction, only to push them into a ditch. :( :( :(

I got 2 messages about Patidar today. I did not read, just deleted it :)... Seems like they got a contract to get bakras.

Every month, I get 2-3 calls from some "consultancy" from Indore.
 

Rish

Well-Known Member
One great thing about the internet is that information and knowledge becomes more accessable, and if we can look at it at a time of our choosing and convenience, its an additional bonus. To that effect, I have created a mail id specifically, where I subscribe to market related mailers, which come to me and I read when I want to. Here's one sharing some excerpts.

2 Most Common Investing Mistakes - Sam Seiden

http://lessons.tradingacademy.com/article/2-most-common-investing-mistakes/

The world of market speculating is made up of everyone from the active day trader to the longer term investor, speculating in all kinds of markets and asset classes, people all around the globe pushing buy and sell buttons each day in hopes of achieving income and wealth. Never in history has there been so many books written and so much information on the internet on how to speculate in markets for traders and investors. Each weekend in many cities around the world, there are educational seminars given on how to “get rich” from trading. With so much education and information on how to properly speculate in markets out there, why is it that most short term traders lose money and most long term investors never achieve long term financial goals? How can this be? The answer is twofold and is the focus of this piece.

First, it’s because of most of the books and seminars. Most books and seminars are loaded with conventional Technical and Fundamental analysis which tends to teach you how to buy when everyone else buys and sell when everyone else sells (herd mentality) which is high risk, low reward, and low probability. Conventional Technical analysis is based on pattern recognition that has people buying after price has rallied and also offers buy and sell signals based on indicators and oscillators that always lag price which means high risk buying and selling. Conventional Fundamental analysis offers buy signals only after good news is present and company numbers are strong. Where do you think the price of a stock is by the time this good news is offered to you? If you guessed high, you’re correct almost always. The only way to be consistently profitable when buying and selling in markets is to have a strategy that has people buying after you buy, at higher prices than you paid and selling after you sell, at lower prices than you sold at. Conventional Technical and Fundamental analysis does not help us in this regard. The basic principles of these two ways of thinking ensure you will buy and sell with the herd, when it’s too late which means high risk and NO EDGE. If proper market speculating was as easy as reading a book, wouldn’t everyone be millionaires?

The second reason most people lose money in the global trading markets which is really part of reason number one is that they throw all simple logic out the window. When you go to buy a car and you’re at the dealership and see the car you have your heart set on, you see the price and its $20,000. Do you go to the dealer and say; “I like this $20,000 car so much, I want to pay you $30,000 for it.” Of course you don’t do that, you likely offer $17,000 or something like that. In trading, most people wait for confirmation of higher prices and then buy which is the opposite of how they buy things outside of trading, this makes no sense. I once spoke to a gentleman. He approached me and said he wanted to learn how to trade. My first question was, “What do you do for a living now?” He happened to own and run a pizza chain that he had just sold. As soon as he said that, I knew he had the best chance at doing this because he already knew how to make money buying and selling. In fact, there was nothing about buying and selling in a market that I could teach him that he didn’t already know; I will explain this in a minute. Our first lesson went like this… I asked him to tell me about his business and he did. He explained that the whole business comes down to the price of cheese. I asked him three simple questions: 1) What is the average price of cheese? “Around $2.00 a pound,” he said. 2) If the cheese you buy is selling at $4.00 a pound, how much will you buy? He said, “As much as I need.” 3) If the cheese is selling at $1.00 a pound, how much will you buy? “As much as I can and store it,” he said. I then told him that he was already a great trader and that there was nothing I could teach him about trading that he didn’t already know. What I could show him however is EXACLTY what this proper buying and selling looks like on a price chart. The most important part of today’s article for you to understand is this:

The more you can bring the mind set and rules that you use each day to purchase everyday items at the grocery store, appliance store, and so on into your market speculating, the better you will do. Do you ever use coupons to save some money? If you do, you already know how to buy at a low price. Take that same exact mind set and action into your trading world. The mass illusion is that proper trading and investing is somehow different than how we properly buy and sell things in everyday life. Truth is, there is no difference.

Many so-called professionals like to complicate the process with smoke, mirrors, curtains, and sleight of hand. They do this to trick you so that you will transfer some of your account, into theirs, without you realizing it. The key for you is to keep everything “real.” Use your simple logic filter to ensure you will not lose some or all of your account to illusion.



In the upper left corner of this screen shot, we see a market that is falling fast and reaching what our strategy determined to be an objective demand zone (wholesale prices). Most people would not want to buy in that circled area because there is a downtrend and every book says to never by in a downtrend. There was also some bad news causing price to crash which would make people very nervous when buying at that level. So, most people would not only not buy, some actually sold in that circled area. That is a chart of the Euro. What if I changed the market and made it the market for a SMART TV? If you saw price decline like that would you be more inclined to buy? Would you be afraid to buy on that decline or would you be very excited? Of course we would be thrilled to buy that TV at a discount. Why then does just about everyone on the planet have opposite feelings or emotions with these two examples. The answer is simple, one is a financial market and the other is an example of anything else we buy and sell in life. Furthermore, you have been brainwashed to think that how you make money buying and selling in a financial market as a trader or investor is somehow different from how you make money buying and selling anything in life.

The chart in the middle, on the bottom is the result of that trade. Price turned higher, giving us a low risk profit on that trading opportunity. The reality is that the Euro was on sale for a short period of time and there was only a small amount for sale at that price meaning once they were all bought, price would rise. The chart gives us all this information if you understand market timing supply and demand strategy.

2 Mistakes the Novice Trader/Investor Made

* The seller sold to us AFTER a decline in price.

* They sold to us at a price level where the chart told us, demand exceeded supply.


These are the two most common investing mistakes the masses commit around the world which is why most active traders lose money and most long term investors never come close to achieving their financial goals. There is nothing wrong with following the rules of a trading book, just make sure you are the author and that your strategy has you buying at wholesale prices and selling at retail prices. To do this, start with using all the powerful buying and selling knowledge you already possess and use on a daily basis outside of the trading world. Bring this key but simple strategy into trading and you will soon be spotting “blue light specials” all over the place. Never forget, how you make money buying and selling anything in life is EXACTLY how you make money buying and selling in the financial markets.
Today it happened in Wipro and also in Gold.....

Wipro Chart just i am sharing

 

DSM

Well-Known Member
Thanks Rish for your post. Please explain more when you can. You would be familiar with the AFL setup, but maybe for other traders will be helpful if you can provide more details.

Today it happened in Wipro and also in Gold.....

Wipro Chart just i am sharing

 

DSM

Well-Known Member
Some quotes from Traders :


Successful investing is not about being right, it is about making money. Most good traders are usually wrong many times. They will lose small amounts often and make big amounts occasionally. What matters is how much they make over a large number of trades. Don’t try to always be right, simply work to make money - Tyler Bollhorn

The nature of the markets is by definition uncertain. The outcome of a single trade can’t be predicted. Novice traders wrongly assume losses can be avoided. Nothing could be further from the truth. Losses are an integral part of trading. Traders can’t control the fact losses will occur. What you can control though is the size of your losses. Once you firmly grasp this concept you will understand and willingly accept working and trading in an environment characterized by ambiguity, uncertainty and doubt. - Dennis Gartman

If you really believe in an uncertain outcome, then you also have to expect that virtually anything can happen in the market. Otherwise, the moment you let your mind hold onto the notion that you know, you stop taking all of the unknown variables into consideration. – Mark Douglas

I’ve said it before, and I’m going to say it again, because it cannot be overemphasized: the most important change in my trading career occurred when I learned to divorce my ego from the trade. Trading is a psychological game. Most people think that they’re playing against the market, but you’re really playing against yourself. You have to stop trying to will things to happen to prove that you’re right. Listen only to what the market is telling you NOW. The sole objective of trading is not to prove you’re right, but to hear the cash register ring. - Martin Schwartz

I know it may sound strange to many readers, but there is an inverse relationship between analysis and trading results. More analysis or being able to make distinctions in the market’s behavior will not produce better trading results. There are many traders who find themselves caught in this exasperating loop, thinking that more or better analysis is going to give them the confidence they need to do what needs to be done to achieve success. It’s what I call a trading paradox that most traders find difficult, if not impossible to reconcile – Mark Douglas
 

DSM

Well-Known Member

Was just reflecting on something that's been on the mind, but always put on the back burner. But guess its time to act now. While posting on this thread is much about discipline, objectivity, trading high quality setups, there are a lot of other things as well that we surely know are essential for good trading. e.g well defined entries, exits, trailing SL's, risk and capital management, trading in direction of larger TF, avoiding subjective entries etc. etc.

While all this is fine, I think it is important to have a clear, written and a well defined trading plan that can classify and define that entry has been made as per 'system x' and so on, and then to track the performance of such. (Like Augubhai - who is ofcourse a master at this) Hence, this weekend will get going on this aspect, but would welcome feedback as well as suggestion. Will post what develops later, in what I hope can be added/deleted so as to trade only as per objectivity and a well defined and a WRITTEN plan. Ideas anyone?