Nifty Futures Trading

[Sunil]

If TA/CA is all about probability, then for me, it's highly unlikely that it will close below 2800....
The stop for positional shorts is still far away - i have kept mine at around 2950+...

so, a close anywhere between 2800-2900 gives bulls some hope, and give bears a proper trailing stop...
even-stevens...

http://www.traderji.com/futures/255...ing-system-coupled-2-3-day-swing-calls-8.html

Managed to hold on to spot 2813-2800 & also managed to close above 2850.
What else can you expect on a day after a fall of 250 points.

Short-term over-sold status & spot 2813's RSR status - both respected...

Fight continues on Monday, hopefully, with some momentum...
I reckon today's range (spot 2930-2810) will be key for monday's trades

 

[renu daga]

I am lambu from that level since then....
have faith till 2790 spot, & to kiss 2900 vicinity

in supportive to sunils post,,

jsut one chart
which signfies strong long
and same wa seen today in rcom / sterlite( divergences)

renu

 

[rajuwaste]

Hi sunil & Seniors,
On 7/01/2009 I raised one question u told me to add EMA103,21 in the one minute chart.When I applied these values different broker terminals are giving different details in the beginning of market,see the first image I circled the starting point of the EMA lines.

What should I do,Broker terminal technical is sufficient for intraday trading or any other cost effective solution available for newbie technical analyst like me.For EOD I have Metastock and EOD data download tool (EODDlc by pkjha30 in this forum) still I am not using metastock efficiently for my trading.I came to know that Trend Rider are one of the best technical data providers,Is it true?

I am concentrating these days in Technical analysis.Previously I was thinking TA are lagging in nature so I did not spend time on it.Nowadays I realised TA is also a necessary aid for trading.In this year I am learning in full swing so please help me.

 

[Sunil]

Hi sunil & Seniors,
On 7/01/2009 I raised one question u told me to add EMA103,21 in the one minute chart.When I applied these values different broker terminals are giving different values what should I do.

That's not MACD chart...
that's a Moving Average cross-over charts of SPot nifty
In 1min timeframe chart of Nifty OVER LAST 2 DAYS ATLEAST, select tools-> Moving Average
In the indicator parameter, select Period 103 & Exponential metjod
Another one for period period 21 & Exponential method

If green goes below red, you short
if green goes above red, u go long

That website is by one of my fav technical tools trader - SAMEER
I used to trade acc to that page in my learning days

a) 21 & 103 period exponential moving average calculation will require 21 & 103 completed bars for calculation.
Hence, in case of 1min chart timeframe, 21 EMA value will appear after 21 minutes, and 103 EMA will appear after 103 minutes.
That's why, in my reply, I had told you that 1min chart should be from a day earlier.

b) The two charts you have presented:
The first one seems to be of Sharekhan's Trade Tiger, where timeframe is 1min but chart is for current day only. If you select 3D time period, then you will get to see the correct crossovers as shown in the second (lower) chart

c) The second (lower) chart surprises me... the values & crossovers are perfectly right & even as per Sameer's website.
But, what surprises me is that how it was able to calculate 21 EMA & 103 EMA values from the first minute itself, when it's just today's chart (not from yesterday ie Wednesday)....
From where it got data of the previous 21 & 103 bars, when they are not even loaded...
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHICH BROKER'S CHART IS THIS SECOND (LOWER) ONE? IT REALLY SAVES SCREEN SPACE...

 

[Sunil]

Even in Religare's RACEPRO such feature is not available...
for live, correct value of RSI (14) in 1min chart, I have to wait for 14 minutes from 9:55.

Similiarly, for RSI (14) in 5min charts, I have to wait for 5min*14bars = 70minutes from 9:55....

 

[rajuwaste]

a) 21 & 103 period exponential moving average calculation will require 21 & 103 completed bars for calculation.
Hence, in case of 1min chart timeframe, 21 EMA value will appear after 21 minutes, and 103 EMA will appear after 103 minutes.
That's why, in my reply, I had told you that 1min chart should be from a day earlier.

b) The two charts you have presented:
The first one seems to be of Sharekhan's Trade Tiger, where timeframe is 1min but chart is for current day only. If you select 3D time period, then you will get to see the correct crossovers as shown in the second (lower) chart

c) The second (lower) chart surprises me... the values & crossovers are perfectly right & even as per Sameer's website.
But, what surprises me is that how it was able to calculate 21 EMA & 103 EMA values from the first minute itself, when it's just today's chart (not from yesterday ie Wednesday)....
From where it got data of the previous 21 & 103 bars, when they are not even loaded...
PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHICH BROKER'S CHART IS THIS SECOND (LOWER) ONE? IT REALLY SAVES SCREEN SPACE...

Hi Sunil,
Thank u for prompt reply,Actually second broker terminal is not a well known broker but their software is developed by spider software(well known for their technical software) I think they are feeding the data in that terminal that is why it is showing the line from the beginning of the market itself.By the way you did not answer my other queries

What should I do,Broker terminal technical is sufficient for intraday trading or any other cost effective solution available for newbie technical analyst like me.For EOD I have Metastock and EOD data download tool (EODDlc by pkjha30 in this forum) still I am not using metastock efficiently for my trading.I came to know that Trend Rider are one of the best technical data providers,Is it true?

For Eod analysis my software tools are sufficient or any other best alternatives available.Help me in intraday data service provider details or is there any efficient free tools available to feed metastock.

 

[Sunil]

I am concentrating these days in Technical analysis.Previously I was thinking TA are lagging in nature so I did not spend time on it.Nowadays I realised TA is also a necessary aid for trading.In this year I am learning in full swing so please help me.

I believe in more of CA (Chart Analysis) than TA (Technical Analysis)...
(i m not sure whether CA & TA can be called as same, or one is a subset of the other)

CA requires proper study & analysis of price movement (some prefer with volume too) & various chart patterns breakouts...
For me, CA can never be lagging, as price never lies. If today 2800 gave good support, it was because on its last retest, it had given very good support too & led to a rally till 3150.
But, if on Monday, it is again subject to test quickly at open, I doubt whether it would be able to hold... At best. 2790.
Saint sir's flow method uses only CA (price bar analysis)... you go short at reversal pivot bar's low's break; you go long at break of reversal pivot bar's high.
With CA, one can time his entry level & also his stop loss & target levels.
KNOW THY CHART, KNOW THY TREND, KNOW THY STOP & THUS, KNOW THY ENTRY....


TA, for me, involves technical tools like Moving averages, RSI, MACD, TRIN, slow stochastics, etc... ALL of them are lagging in nature... THERE'S NO ARGUMENT ABOUT THAT....
you cannot say for sure that as soon as RSI touches 30, one should go long WITHOUT EVEN HAVING A LOOK AT CURRENT PRICE LEVEL...
That's why, we have to wait for "cheats" / "tricks" like divergences, crossovers, etc...

Even I don't completely rely on RSI alone, unless there's known chartical RSR level nearby...
Today, for instance, at 2805 fut level when I went long, after few moments, I spotted bullish divergence in RSI chart (1min timframe).... That gave me more confidence of hitting atleast 2850, where I offloaded half of my qty.

But, the initial & bigger confidence came from knowing the value/importance of 2800, and not RSI (1min) = 30!!!

DEVOTE MORE TIME TO PRICE MOVEMENT & CHART PATTERN ANALYSIS.... rather than knowing the nitty-gritties of technical indicators, their formulae, etc...

This is my personal view & may differ with others...(though I don't know anyone who swears ONLY BY technical indicators)

 

[Sunil]

Raju,
Please mention the name of the second broker. I wanna know....

 

[rajuwaste]

I believe in more of CA (Chart Analysis) than TA (Technical Analysis)...
(i m not sure whether CA & TA can be called as same, or one is a subset of the other)

CA requires proper study & analysis of price movement (some prefer with volume too) & various chart patterns breakouts...
For me, CA can never be lagging, as price never lies. If today 2800 gave good support, it was because on its last retest, it had given very good support too & led to a rally till 3150.
But, if on Monday, it is again subject to test quickly at open, I doubt whether it would be able to hold... At best. 2790.
Saint sir's flow method uses only CA (price bar analysis)... you go short at reversal pivot bar's low's break; you go long at break of reversal pivot bar's high.
With CA, one can time his entry level & also his stop loss & target levels.
KNOW THY CHART, KNOW THY TREND, KNOW THY STOP & THUS, KNOW THY ENTRY....


TA, for me, involves technical tools like Moving averages, RSI, MACD, TRIN, slow stochastics, etc... ALL of them are lagging in nature... THERE'S NO ARGUMENT ABOUT THAT....
you cannot say for sure that as soon as RSI touches 30, one should go long WITHOUT EVEN HAVING A LOOK AT CURRENT PRICE LEVEL...
That's why, we have to wait for "cheats" / "tricks" like divergences, crossovers, etc...

Even I don't completely rely on RSI alone, unless there's known chartical RSR level nearby...
Today, for instance, at 2805 fut level when I went long, after few moments, I spotted bullish divergence in RSI chart (1min timframe).... That gave me more confidence of hitting atleast 2850, where I offloaded half of my qty.

But, the initial & bigger confidence came from knowing the value/importance of 2800, and not RSI (1min) = 30!!!

DEVOTE MORE TIME TO PRICE MOVEMENT & CHART PATTERN ANALYSIS.... rather than knowing the nitty-gritties of technical indicators, their formulae, etc...

This is my personal view & may differ with others...(though I don't know anyone who swears ONLY BY technical indicators)

Thank you for clarifying some of my queries.Anyway without knowing technical analysis and Chart pattern I was analysing chart to some extent like volume previous support and resistance.But I could not understand how to know these things for each and every day (especially intraday).Because I was using the support and resistance for long period only with my limited knowledge without proper guidence or study any material only by direct market exposer.See the below image I predicted satyam will touch 115 in the previous down move.I mean first down fall from Rs.200 price range to Rs.115 price.

By the way upto 2007 Sharekhan,IndiaInfoline & Ventura these are the three brokers using trading software developed by Spider software.So all these three broker terminals used same data but nowadays Sharekhan & IndiaInfoline are using their own Trading softwares.The broker u are asking about is Ventura securities.

 

[orderflow13]

There is something I want 2 share, its still in experimental basis so by posting this post I am hoping to read the other side of the coin, pros n cons of my experiments so plz be free to express ur opinion friends..

First its regarding option trading using pivot points and saints flow method ( strictly positional so only hourly bars no aggressive/pure stuff here) . what I am doing is writing call when sell signal triggered and at day closing I buy call of near SAR, same with puts when buy signal triggers, operative word here is buy call at DAY CLOSING TO NEGOTIATE GAP UP AGAINST WRITTEN CALL MOVES. Ex. Suppose on hourly there is pvt crack say 3100 then we write 3100 call now say market behave as per our likings n at day closing,here comes the imp part we dnt open our naked write position to the mercy of gap ups so we buy 3200 call considering we have SAR at 3160 ( including filter) if market opens in favor of our short position we kept open our 3200 call buying position as it is till new sar established well its very simple technique but putting it in words sounds bit complicated, as is the irony with all option strategies.
Objective only objective is fixing the risk and so fixing the profits, so its not exactly flow method as saint sir uses flow method for capturing big trades, here we let it go big moves when move is in line next day but.. now consider at first day we write 3100call n we brought 3200 call n next day market open gaps up but within our sar then? We sell our long call in profit n wait for market to hit our sar. If sar hit we write put as long triggered but if sar didnt trigger we kept open our written call position in free time I will post my charts n trades of 2 months to clear it more, I use to trade options using inbuilt indicator PARABOLIC SAR this is bit evolution and logical version of previous, meanwhile excuse me for bit confusing post
Regards Alex.
P.S. To cut the chase down when we deal with option writing, math says LIMITED PROFIT AND UNLIMITED LOSS, afterwards everything is ur choice.