Scalper's Forum
- Thread starter trader111
- Start date
Thank you all for the participation.
Gradual learning is enjoyable learning. Let us hold for a while before moving futher.
I have a idea that some members are not familiar with things talked about in slide no. 14, 19, 25, 29, 31, 32 of the uploaded pdf. Also about microstructure. Shall await for comments and questions.
Traderwiz, copy paste the link: http://www . 4shared . com/file/51182290/3c0eb86d/Day_Trading_ppt.html , but remove spaces before hitting enter. Alternatively search for a pdf file named day trading ppt on that site.
Dear Sanjay, yes thats the way I trade. In practise, once in a 15 trades it is not possibe to take count of 2-3 ticks because of inherent noise. My trading style may different to Joy's (jdm). Considering that no two trading styles are mutually exclusive, IMHO it pay's to look how other's are trading.
Dear Tape, I have'nt been in Delhi for a year now. ( I used the past tense 'took'.) Like Rakesh said, maybe now they are out of business. They have guys who are thoroughly skilled in scalping, and are allowed to do so, but the firm disguise them as scalpers. Same for SMC at Karol Bagh, letting their senior'arbitraguers' do 'blank satta'. A friend wanted to join them and I was much scared too look at their job profile. For everone else except seniors, They scalp for 15-20 paisa, the floor managers thorughly discourage to use their own brains, and there is no chance of research. To top it there were bonds to sign. All's well that ends well though as successful ones go with their own business. There are some firms in India, but we shall talk henceforth about them thru PM. As the thread grows, I will be look forward for your help.
Skarpio, Rakesh, Sanx, and Hariomkar, it makes sense to talk about profitability once we are through a 'profitable' strategy
(finding edge). About brokerage and other tools, first let me get over with basic things.
One again I request to read my posts well. I painted a pretty tough picture about learning to scalp. And when I talked about doubling money, I talked about 'established' scalper. We don't call someone who jumps into day trading ,using the only information as news headlines, a trader.
Let us build ground before going further.
Thanks.
Gradual learning is enjoyable learning. Let us hold for a while before moving futher.
I have a idea that some members are not familiar with things talked about in slide no. 14, 19, 25, 29, 31, 32 of the uploaded pdf. Also about microstructure. Shall await for comments and questions.
Traderwiz, copy paste the link: http://www . 4shared . com/file/51182290/3c0eb86d/Day_Trading_ppt.html , but remove spaces before hitting enter. Alternatively search for a pdf file named day trading ppt on that site.
Dear Sanjay, yes thats the way I trade. In practise, once in a 15 trades it is not possibe to take count of 2-3 ticks because of inherent noise. My trading style may different to Joy's (jdm). Considering that no two trading styles are mutually exclusive, IMHO it pay's to look how other's are trading.
Dear Tape, I have'nt been in Delhi for a year now. ( I used the past tense 'took'.) Like Rakesh said, maybe now they are out of business. They have guys who are thoroughly skilled in scalping, and are allowed to do so, but the firm disguise them as scalpers. Same for SMC at Karol Bagh, letting their senior'arbitraguers' do 'blank satta'. A friend wanted to join them and I was much scared too look at their job profile. For everone else except seniors, They scalp for 15-20 paisa, the floor managers thorughly discourage to use their own brains, and there is no chance of research. To top it there were bonds to sign. All's well that ends well though as successful ones go with their own business. There are some firms in India, but we shall talk henceforth about them thru PM. As the thread grows, I will be look forward for your help.
Skarpio, Rakesh, Sanx, and Hariomkar, it makes sense to talk about profitability once we are through a 'profitable' strategy
(finding edge). About brokerage and other tools, first let me get over with basic things. One again I request to read my posts well. I painted a pretty tough picture about learning to scalp. And when I talked about doubling money, I talked about 'established' scalper. We don't call someone who jumps into day trading ,using the only information as news headlines, a trader.
Let us build ground before going further.
Thanks.
btw searching the aforementioned link but gettin reply=file not found
regards
Saint,
I cannot find words to compliment you. Seriously
Always making a thorough effort, learning silently, a thing or two from your posts
I cannot find words to compliment you. Seriously
Always making a thorough effort, learning silently, a thing or two from your posts
Have learnt a thing or two from your posts and looking fwd to more....
Saint
Trader111: Great Initiative....
From what I know James Simmons was a mathematical genius......His firm hires the best and the brightest Ph.D's from any part of the world. They don't hire MBA's. They hire Ph.d's in Mathematics, Physics, Theoretical Physics and Statistics. They then come up with all the models to trade. And they also make you sign a bond so that when you leave them, you cannot use their trading methods/strategies. They even sued 2 traders who left to start their own....and those 2 traders settled for an amount.
The million dollar question is this: Is scalping possible in the Indian markets? Just like Rakesh has mentioned. I have traded in New York and I know it is easy there when compared to the Indian markets (due to hefty taxes). In the U.S. you can get a rate of as little as 0.003 per share if you trade as much as 40,000 shares a day. So your break even point is 0.006 (round trip) and it is not that difficult to find a stock that moves say 30-40 cents in minutes. Now I am on a vacation in India and trying to duplicate my methods here only to see these hefty STT and also the rates are not dependent on just the number of shares alone but also the price. Try scalping a high price stock and all you are doing is making your broker very wealthy.
This method may work if they come out with a proprietary trading groups where say a company comes up with a deal i.e. profit split. So if i make 1 lakh a day, my company takes 30,000 Rupees or whatever. But I haven't seen any thing like that here in India. Such companies do exist in the U.S. and other parts of the world.
The best thing you can do is open an account with R.K. Global for a flat rate of Rs 999 per month. I have tried this but their servers are not reliable. It cuts me off like 20 times in a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Combine this with power cuts in India and if you are a big time trader you may get your ass kicked within a few minutes due to circumstances beyond your control.
Also, to answer my other question, do you need a ph.d. in theoretical physics to be a profitable scalper? probably not. I have seen a high school drop out in the U.S., scalp every day profitably. This kid was recruited by a company because he was a video game genius. This kid won some kind of a video game tournament and was recruited by a scalping day trading company. This was way back in 1999 when internet was some thing new...I met him in 2003 and he has had only a few down days and has been CONSISTENTLY profitable every single month.
Question for the rest of the members:
1) Do you still think it is possible to do scalping with todays brokerage rates?
2) If so, which instrument? are we talking NIFTY? or some other scrib?
3) Please post some numbers and all of us can see whether if this would be possible?
Great Thread. I am looking to learn more and more participation.
Rajesh
From what I know James Simmons was a mathematical genius......His firm hires the best and the brightest Ph.D's from any part of the world. They don't hire MBA's. They hire Ph.d's in Mathematics, Physics, Theoretical Physics and Statistics. They then come up with all the models to trade. And they also make you sign a bond so that when you leave them, you cannot use their trading methods/strategies. They even sued 2 traders who left to start their own....and those 2 traders settled for an amount.
The million dollar question is this: Is scalping possible in the Indian markets? Just like Rakesh has mentioned. I have traded in New York and I know it is easy there when compared to the Indian markets (due to hefty taxes). In the U.S. you can get a rate of as little as 0.003 per share if you trade as much as 40,000 shares a day. So your break even point is 0.006 (round trip) and it is not that difficult to find a stock that moves say 30-40 cents in minutes. Now I am on a vacation in India and trying to duplicate my methods here only to see these hefty STT and also the rates are not dependent on just the number of shares alone but also the price. Try scalping a high price stock and all you are doing is making your broker very wealthy.
This method may work if they come out with a proprietary trading groups where say a company comes up with a deal i.e. profit split. So if i make 1 lakh a day, my company takes 30,000 Rupees or whatever. But I haven't seen any thing like that here in India. Such companies do exist in the U.S. and other parts of the world.
The best thing you can do is open an account with R.K. Global for a flat rate of Rs 999 per month. I have tried this but their servers are not reliable. It cuts me off like 20 times in a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Combine this with power cuts in India and if you are a big time trader you may get your ass kicked within a few minutes due to circumstances beyond your control.
Also, to answer my other question, do you need a ph.d. in theoretical physics to be a profitable scalper? probably not. I have seen a high school drop out in the U.S., scalp every day profitably. This kid was recruited by a company because he was a video game genius. This kid won some kind of a video game tournament and was recruited by a scalping day trading company. This was way back in 1999 when internet was some thing new...I met him in 2003 and he has had only a few down days and has been CONSISTENTLY profitable every single month.
Question for the rest of the members:
1) Do you still think it is possible to do scalping with todays brokerage rates?
2) If so, which instrument? are we talking NIFTY? or some other scrib?
3) Please post some numbers and all of us can see whether if this would be possible?
Great Thread. I am looking to learn more and more participation.
Rajesh
OK.
So, first do we have to choose a broker for intra day trading? or do we have to look at the 1 minute chart to find the hidden "micro structure" in the markets? or do we have to use some statistical theory and then we have to test it to see whether if it works or not. Can some body elaborate what exactly would be the starting point for this technique?
From that pdf article that trader111 has posted, it would make sense to find stocks or the "right instruments" that exhibit some kind of co-relation. I completely agree that if u are trading the right instrument, then the strategies doesn't have to be complicated (just like it mentioned in that article). Draw a simple channel, and when the price breaks out, simply trade. Let James Simmons hire the brightest Ph.D's and let them use some chaos theory and fluid dynamics to trade the same stock or instrument. At the same time, a lot of individual investors would be using simple moving averages, RSI, channel breakouts etc. to trade the same instrument. I guess any strategy would work.
So, first do we have to choose a broker for intra day trading? or do we have to look at the 1 minute chart to find the hidden "micro structure" in the markets? or do we have to use some statistical theory and then we have to test it to see whether if it works or not. Can some body elaborate what exactly would be the starting point for this technique?
From that pdf article that trader111 has posted, it would make sense to find stocks or the "right instruments" that exhibit some kind of co-relation. I completely agree that if u are trading the right instrument, then the strategies doesn't have to be complicated (just like it mentioned in that article). Draw a simple channel, and when the price breaks out, simply trade. Let James Simmons hire the brightest Ph.D's and let them use some chaos theory and fluid dynamics to trade the same stock or instrument. At the same time, a lot of individual investors would be using simple moving averages, RSI, channel breakouts etc. to trade the same instrument. I guess any strategy would work.
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