Set-Ups disscused & practised @ Nifty Futures Trading Thread.

orderflow13

Well-Known Member
hi alex,
have u tried trading with the macd by kartik.
since ur a fan of macd & adx...ull love it.
wht i heard is this guy used to successfully trade with it
is it combination of adx macd ? or what ? plz do specify,
i am dependent of adx more
p.s. regarding kartik, i just downloaded few afl of vsa , wil try to post here few charts later, ( i will observe vsa in th light of oi pcr )
 

Sunil

Well-Known Member
GOING WITH THE 30 MIN FLOW FOR INTRADAY TRADING

by Saint Sir...

THE OFFICIAL LINK / THREAD:
http://www.traderji.com/day-trading-stocks/24071-going-intraday-mini-flow-77.html#post224547

THE EXTRACT:

AIM:The aim is to trade everyday,and if all goes well,to trade between 10am and 3:25 pm............to trigger without thinking if triggers are hit,trail stop without thinking because that is our Plan,to exit without thinking if stops hit.

PERSPECTIVE:Although we would be trading a particular time frame,we will not be basing our decisions on a larger timeframe.......but we will be taking the help of the larger time frame and the immediate smaller time frame so that we are able to see things more clearly.

TIME FRAME OF TRADE:The 30min chart...........with the help of the 60 and the 20.

CHARTS:Candlestick charts.......just because it gives me better visuals,and a particular pattern that crops up on the 60 helps with the Reversal days.And yet,whatever the pattern,it is the pivot that we are trading.And it is the Pivot that tells us to get out of positions and to stay in.

ENTRY:Allow the 5min bar,the first of the day to form......go long if the high + filter is taken out.Go short if the 5min bar low is taken out.Again with a filter.

MOVING FILTER:For the NF,put in a moving filter at Rs 14 on the 30min charts.......meaning that we want to trade the breakout on the 5 only if it shows strength enough for us to feel confident enough about that particular trade.Bar 1 high is 4312,Bar 2 high is 4320,Bar 3 high is 4330,Bar 4 high is 4337.........meaning we look on and not enter that trade.What we are looking for is a breakout bar,and not a sad excuse of a bar,with some tails.

Once that first bar is formed,we are basically looking to buy Rs14 over the high of that bar.and short Rs14 below the low of that bar.Once the entry is triggerred,presuming a long has been triggerred,stop loss is Rs 7 below the low of that bar.But only on trigger.

And another thing:We get a breakout,add the 14 to it.....and then trade breaks down,we are back to Rs7 for reversal entry,etc.This Rs14 is only for the trade that comes along with the first bar even if the first trade comes many bars later.Other than that trade,it's all Rs7 all the way.

STOP LOSS:Rs 7 below the low of the first bar once we get that breakout in case of longs.Rs 7 above the high once the shorts are triggerred.

TRAIL STOP:
Trail stops only on higher pivot lows in longs.......trail stops to lower pivot highs in shorts.

If the trade is on long side and if you get strong 4 bars up in 30 min chart or more, move the stop to the low of 2 bars back. Same as the 2 bar method we employ in the 60min Flow. Only difference is use this only after we get 4 bars up.
And if the 5th bar makes a new high,then trail stop to 3rd bar low,so on so forth.

Remember one thing though:2 bar method trail stop is at 4355.Pivot formed on the 30,that is very evident on the 20,trail stop there is 4367.Trail stops using Pivots are much more important.Priority is with the Pivot Stop Loss.

(ALL THIS EXPLAINED IN SEPARATE BOX BELOW)

STOP AND REVERSE:All stops are reverse points.

ADDS:There will only be one add to the initial posn.......if we get a momentum move,with big WRB's,then might be 2 adds max.Whether you add an equal no.of contracts or lesser is up to you,so long as you don't add more number of contracts than the initial posn.......Adds at Rs5.

PROFITS:You could take out profits of about a third at the area equivalent to the risk of that trade......If stop loss was Rs 45 away,and you got a Rs45 move and would like a third off.Fine.Once again up to your personality type.

At the end of day,there is pulling out of positions .......basically because want to be out of all before close.So no real rationale as to why there,and not Rs2 ago.

EXITS:Exits are on hitting Trail stops,......at the End of Day.......or taking profits off the table on a weak move up within a dntrend and reversing once the down move starts.

Rest all as usual.......

Saint


THE 4 BAR RULE - METHOD OF SHIFTING TRAILING STOPS IN ABSENCE OF PIVOTS

Illustration (with a short position)

BAR 1 forms.

BAR 2 LH-LL .......Short triggered below BAR 1 with room.Stops above high of BAR1

BAR 3 LH-LL.......Nothing to be done.Stops where it was.

BAR 4 LH-LL.......Nothing to be done till it is completed.After the end of the 4th Bar,move stops to the high of BAR 2.

From here,2 possibilities:
a) BAR 5 does not make a LL,keep stops at high of BAR 2.
b) BAR 5 makes a LL,then move stops to the high of BAR 3.

So on so forth for Bar 6.

AS MENTIONED ABOVE, THIS IS TO BE DONE WHEN THERE ARE NO PIVOTS FORMED IN THE LOWER TIME FRAME CHART ALSO (15/20 MIN) TOO...

IF THERE IS A PIVOT FORMED IN THE LOWER TIME FRAME CHART, THEN PREFERENCE WILL BE GIVEN TO SUCH PIVOT FORMED.
what is a pivot:
taking an example of our three fingers for three chartical bars...
ring, middle, index... face it towards yourself (forming a W)... check out the middle finger... its HIGH is higher than the other two fingers' highs...
such a middle bar becomes a pivot, and is to be used for adding to longs, or as SAR for shorts

now, invert your hand, and the fingers should face you forming an M...
again, check out the middle finger... its LOW is lower than the other two fingers' lows...
such a middle bar becomes a pivot, and is to be used as adding to shorts, or as SAR for longs...

so, we wait till the third bar is completed to decide whether the previous bar is a pivot or not by comparing the 3 full formed bars....


This is the 30 min chart of 8th October, where I found most of the concepts in action:




First, let us identify "pivot" from this chart (as explained above)

Bars forming "M" shaped pivots - 5, 8, 11
Bars forming "W" shaped pivots - 6, 10


Let's take it step-by-step now:

On completion of Bar 1: High(H) = 3508, Low(L) = 3471; we decide to enter long at 3508+14=3522, or to enter short at 3471-14=3457. Let's see what triggers during formation of next bar.

On completion of Bar 2: H=3492, L=3425; During formation of Bar 2, shorts got triggered at 3457 with Stop And Reverse (SAR) at 3508 (high of bar 1) + 7 = 3515 Risk=58 points. Depending on personal risk/money managment, one will have to decide the number of Nifty/MiniNifty lots to enter into this position where risk is 58 points. Let's take 2 lots in this case.
Bar 2, on completion & being a WRB, signals an addition to our short position at (Low) 3425 - (room) 5 = 3420... Let's see if 3420 comes during formation of next bar.

On completion of Bar 3: H=3450, L=3416;
So 3420, indeed, comes up.... Now, whether we add on to our position or not, depends on our personal risk/money management, and has to be decided quickly, so that we are mentally prepared to take this position or not. Let's see how can one decide:
Our SAR is still at 3515. Addition here will reduce average cost, but risk will also change.
If we add 1 lot, then the average cost of our 3 lots = 3444.67; SAR, being at 3515, our risk for 3 lots = 70.33 per lot
If we add 2 lots. then the average cost of our 4 lots = 3438.50; SAR, being at 3515, our risk for 4 lots = 76.50 per lot
This addition is also as per one's risk comfort, and may be avoided completely...
In this case, we decide to take only 1 lot...
so now, we have 3 lots of short position at average cost of 3444.67; SAR, being at 3515, our risk for 3 lots = 70.33 per lot

Now, when Bar 3 is completely formed, and Bar 4 starts to form, we check out whether Bar 2 is a pivot or not. As expained earlier, Bar 2 is not a visible pivot. So, SAR still at 3515; Risk=70.33 points
Also, our part-profit booking target is around (Cost+risk) in case of longs & (cost-risk) in case of shorts...
So, in our case, we'll be looking forward to (3444.67-70.33 = 3374.34) around 3374/3375 during formation of next bar, to cover part of our position.

On completion of Bar 4: H=3419, L=3377;
Our 3374/3375 did not trigger during this bar... ok.

NOW HERE COMES THE 4 BAR RULE, FOR ASSIGNING A TRAILING SAR...
When the 4th bar gets completely formed, then we can see that all these 4 bars are forming new Lower-Lows (LLs) Lower-Highs(LHs) with no pivots at all.... On checking the lower time frame chart (15min or 20 min), there's no visible pivot formed there too.
So, as per the trailing stop rule, we shift the trailing stop to high of two bars earlier ie High of Bar 2 (+ filter)
So, now our trailing stop/SAR on completion of 4th bar & start of 5th bar is 3492+7= 3499; Risk now = 54.33 points
Now, we can look forward to (3444.67-54.33=3390.34) around 3390 to part-book our profits during next bar.
As u can see, we are already well below 3390, so one can even stick to the original 3374 for booking part-profits...


On completion of Bar 5: H=3441, L=3352; (note: the low of the bar 3352 was formed first before the high....)
TIME TO BOOK PART-PROFITS
our 3374 came up during formation of this bar. one can either book half or one-third of total position, depending on personal comfort & market condition. Since we have 3 lots, we cover 2 lots at 3374

THE 4 BAR RULE EXTENDED: during formation of this Bar 5, we notice that
a) previous 4 bars were making LL LH pattern,
b) this 5th bar also made a new low; ie goes below the low of the 4th bar
c) there's no visible pivot in the 20 min chart too.
so now, we move our SAR at high of 2 bars before, ie the 3rd bar ie 3450+7=3457 for our balance 1 lot of short position at avergae cost of 3444.67; Risk=12.33 points

On completion of Bar 6: H=3519, L=3423;
during formation of Bar 6, our trailing SAR gets triggered... we exit balance 1 lots of short (cost at average price of 3444.67) at 3457... ie loss of 12.33 points
AND
now we have to enter long from this 3457. Again, we'll have to verify our SAR for this long entry for our risk/money management. Now, SAR for this long position is at low of the PIVOT 5th bar ie 3352-7=3345; Risk = 112 points.
Since risk is 100+ points, we take 1 lot as example.... (though this is personal & subjective)

On completion of Bar 7: H=3498, L=3397; no change in position - we continue long at 3457 with SAR at 3345; Risk=112 points

On completion of Bar 8: H=3448, L=3389; still no change in position - we continue long at 3457 with SAR at 3345; Risk=112 points, BUT BAR 6 IS A VISIBLE PIVOT NOW, SO IF OUR LONG POSITION IS INTACT DURING NEXT FEW BARS, ONE MAY ADD AT THE HIGH OF BAR 6 + FILTER ie 3519+5=3524, if money/risk management allows

On completion of Bar 9: H=3517, L=3427; BAR 8 HAS BECOME A PIVOT... we can now move our SAR to the low of Bar 8 - filter, ie 3389-7=3381; now risk = 76 points; our longs continue...

On completion of Bar 10: H=3533, L=3482;
Now our "add" level (as pre-decided) of 3524 comes during formattion of this bar... it's upto personal risk/money management to decide if we add to long or not.... if we take this add, then our our average cost becomes 3490.50 (3457 & 3524), SAR is at 3381; Risk = 109.50 points; risk is still high, so we do not take this add....
Our 1 lot long at 3457 continues with SAR 3381, Risk=76 points

On completion of Bar 11: H=3515, L=3468; no change in position, long at 3457 with SAR 3381; risk=76 points

On completio of Bar 12: H=3536, L=3474 still no change in position, long at 3457 with SAR 3381; risk=76 points... BUT NOW MARKET CLOSING TIME IS NEARING.... THE NEXT BAR WOULD BE THE LAST ONE FOR THE DAY.... entry + risk = 3457+76=3533... one may book out here or wait for next bar keeping a trailing stop of below 3533-7=3526 ie 3525.50.... this is subjective, and can be done looking at market situation prevailing at that time... the trailing stop mentioned is also subjective... one has to realise that within next few minutes, the position has to be closed at best possible price....

Bar 13: H=3566, L=3526; seeing some halt/noise around 3540-50, we book out at 3545, still around 5-6 minutes let in trade... it could have been anywhere...

TRADE SUMMARY:
Shorted 3 lots at average price of 3444.67 (2 @ 3457 & 1 @ 3420), and covered them at average price of around 3401.67 (2 @ 3374 & 3457); profit = 43 points in 3 lots

Longed 1 lot at 3457, and sold at 3545; profit of 88 points in 1 lot


One may trade with Mini nifty too, for personal risk management.





ONE MORE EXCEPTION TO SAR LEVEL:
http://www.traderji.com/day-trading-stocks/24071-going-intraday-mini-flow-280.html#post233992
 
Last edited:
V

vvvv

Guest
sunil,
will u be using the same system but only on the 15 min chart...
pls start a thread & we will follow u.
 
V

vvvv

Guest
is it combination of adx macd ? or what ? plz do specify,
i am dependent of adx more
p.s. regarding kartik, i just downloaded few afl of vsa , wil try to post here few charts later, ( i will observe vsa in th light of oi pcr )

afl for trading the macd.theres also a pdf file with it.maybe ull find in 4 shared. com


// TRADING THE MACD Ver 1.0 by Karthik Marar. AFL provided as a part of the Discussion on trading the MACD in the Thread " Experiments in Technical Analysis"
// Afl provided to learn and get an insight for trading using the MACD. The AFL can be freely distributed except for commercial purpose.

_SECTION_BEGIN("MACD");
r1 = Param( "Fast avg", 12, 2, 200, 1 );
r2 = Param( "Slow avg", 26, 2, 200, 1 );
r3 = Param( "Signal avg", 9, 2, 200, 1 );
r4 = Param( "Wk slow", 8, 2, 200, 1 );
r5 = Param( "Wk fast", 17, 2, 200, 1 );
m1=MACD(r1,r2);
s1=Signal(r1,r2,r3);
GraphXSpace =20;

mycolor=IIf(m1<0 AND m1>s1, 51,IIf(m1>0 AND m1>s1,colorLime,IIf(m1>0 AND m1<s1,colorOrange,colorRed)));
Plot( m1, StrFormat(_SECTION_NAME()+"(%g,%g)", r1, r2), mycolor,ParamStyle("MACD style") );
Plot( s1 ,"Signal" + _PARAM_VALUES(), ParamColor("Signal color", colorBlue ), ParamStyle("Signal style") );
histcolor = IIf((m1-s1)-Ref((m1-s1),-1)> 0, colorLime, colorRed );

TimeFrameSet( inWeekly );
m1w=MACD(r4,r5);
s1w=Signal(r4,r5,r3);
kp=m1w-s1w;
kph=Ref(kp,-1);
TimeFrameRestore();

kw=TimeFrameExpand( kp, inWeekly ); // expand for display
khw=TimeFrameExpand( kph, inWeekly ); // expand for display
mw=TimeFrameExpand( m1w, inWeekly ); // expand for display
sw=TimeFrameExpand( s1w, inWeekly ); // expand for display

hcolor=IIf(mw<0 AND mw>sw, 51,IIf(mw>0 AND mw>sw,colorLime,IIf(mw>0 AND mw<sw,colorOrange,colorRed)));
gcolor=IIf(kw>khw,IIf(kw>0,colorDarkYellow,colorYellow),IIf(kw>0,colorSkyblue,colorBlue));

Plot( 2,"Wkly MACD ribbon",hcolor,styleOwnScale|styleArea|styleNoLabel, -0.5, 100 );
Plot( 2,"Ribbon",gcolor,styleOwnScale|styleArea|styleNoLabel, -0.4, 40,-0.6 );

Plot( m1-s1, "MACD Histogram", mycolor, styleHistogram | styleThick| styleOwnScale );

_SECTION_END();

_SECTION_BEGIN("Signals");
//Zero crossover up

j1=Cross(m1,0);
PlotShapes(IIf(j1,shapeDigit1 ,Null),colorPaleGreen,0,Min(0,0),Min(0,0));
PlotShapes(IIf(j1,shapeUpArrow,Null),colorGreen,0,Min(0,0),-10);

// crossover above zero

j2=Cross(m1,s1) AND m1>0;
PlotShapes(IIf(j2,shapeDigit2 ,Null),colorYellow,0,0,0);
PlotShapes(IIf(j2,shapeUpArrow,Null),colorGreen,0,0,-10);

//Zero crossover down

j3=Cross(s1,m1) AND m1>0;
PlotShapes(IIf(j3,shapeDigit3 ,Null),colorOrange,0,Min(0,0),0);
PlotShapes(IIf(j3,shapeDownArrow,Null),colorOrange,0,Min(0,0),-10);

// crossover below zero

j4=Cross(0,m1);
PlotShapes(IIf(j4,shapeDigit4 ,Null),colorRed,0,0,0);
PlotShapes(IIf(j4,shapeDownArrow,Null),colorRed,0,0,-10);

// Histogram peak and troughs
pt=m1-s1;
Tp = Ref(pT,-1) == HHV(pT,3);
Vl = Ref(pT,-1)==LLV(pT,3);
PlotShapes(IIf(Vl AND m1>s1 ,shapeSmallCircle+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),IIf(m1<0 ,colorYellow,colorLime),0,0,0);
PlotShapes(IIf(Tp AND m1<s1 ,shapeSmallCircle+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorRed,0,0,0);

//Zeroline reject bearish
zd=BarsSince(j1);
zlrd1=(zd<6 )AND j4;
PlotShapes(IIf(zlrd1,shapeStar+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorDarkRed,0,0,20);

//hooks bearish
Hu=BarsSince(j2);
Hu1=(Hu<6)AND j3;
PlotShapes(IIf(Hu1,shapeStar+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorRed,0,0,20);

//Zeroline reject Bullish
zu=BarsSince(j4);
zlru=zu<6 AND j1;
PlotShapes(IIf(zlru,shapeStar+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorPink,0,0,20);

//Hook Bullish
Hd=BarsSince(j3);
Hd1=Hd<6 AND j2;
PlotShapes(IIf(Hd1,shapeStar+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorLime,0,0,20);

//ADX related calculations
plus=EMA(PDI(14),3)>Ref(EMA(PDI(14),3),-5);
ap=EMA(ADX(14),3)>Ref(EMA(ADX(14),3),-5);
Minus=EMA(MDI(14),3)>Ref(EMA(MDI(14),3),-5);

//Power Dips - Bullish
PDIp=ADX(14)>MDI(14) AND PDI(14)>MDI(14) AND ap AND Vl AND m1>s1 AND plus ;
PlotShapes(IIf(PDIp,shapeHollowCircle+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorCustom12,0,0,0);

//power buys
pr2=ADX(14)>20 AND PDI(14)>20 AND ADX(14)>MDI(14) AND PDI(14)>MDI(14) AND plus AND j2;
PlotShapes(IIf(pr2,shapeHollowCircle+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorCustom12,0,0,20);

//Power Dips - Bearish
PDIm=ADX(14)>PDI(14) AND MDI(14)>PDI(14) AND ap AND Tp AND m1<s1 AND Minus ;
PlotShapes(IIf(PDIm,shapeHollowCircle+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorWhite,0,0,0);

//Power shorts
sr2=ADX(14)>20 AND MDI(14)>20 AND ADX(14)>PDI(14) AND MDI(14)>PDI(14) AND Minus AND j4;
PlotShapes(IIf(sr2,shapeHollowCircle+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorRed,0,0,-20);

//powerbuy2
pr2a=ADX(14)>20 AND PDI(14)>20 AND ADX(14)>MDI(14) AND PDI(14)>MDI(14) AND plus AND j1;
PlotShapes(IIf(pr2a,shapeHollowCircle+ shapePositionAbove,shapeNone),colorCustom12,0,0,20);
_SECTION_END();

_SECTION_BEGIN("Exploration");
Filter = j1 OR j2 OR j3 OR j4 OR PDIp OR PDIm OR pr2 OR sr2 ;

AddColumn(j1,"ZL UP",1);
AddColumn(J2,"MA Up",1);
AddColumn(j3,"MA DN",1);
AddColumn(J4,"ZL DN",1);
AddColumn(PDIp,"PDIP UP",1);
AddColumn(pr2,"PHK UP",1);
AddColumn(PDIm,"PDIP DN",1);
AddColumn(sr2,"PHk UP",1);
_SECTION_END();

_SECTION_BEGIN("Display the Signals");
Title = "Trading the MACD" + " - " + Name() + " - " + EncodeColor(colorRed)+ Interval(2) + EncodeColor() +

" - " + Date() +" - " +EncodeColor(colorLime)+ "MACD= "+WriteVal(m1)+"--"+EncodeColor(colorYellow)+
WriteIf (j1, " MACD Crossed above zero","")+
WriteIf (j2, " Bullish crossover above zero","")+
WriteIf (j4, " MACD Crossed below Zero","")+
WriteIf (j3, " Bearish crossover above zero","")+
WriteIf (PDIP, " Bullish Power Dip","")+
WriteIf (pr2, " & Power Buy","")+
WriteIf (sr2, " & Power Short","")+
WriteIf (PDIm, " Bearish Power Dip","")+
WriteIf (Hd1, " & Bullish Hook","")+
WriteIf (Hu1, " & Bearish Hook","")+
WriteIf (zlrd1, " & Bearish zeroline Reject","")+
WriteIf (zlru, " & Bullish Zeroline Reject","");
_SECTION_END();
 

orderflow13

Well-Known Member
Vikram,....
appreciate your help buddy.
Will test it tonight.Also there is a debate among frnds back testing or experiments by live trading with small amount ( not even paper trade ) your views ? or in this case everybody's views appreciated
 

Sunil

Well-Known Member
sunil,
will u be using the same system but only on the 15 min chart...
pls start a thread & we will follow u.
frankly vvv, i have recently acquainted myself with this flow system, and fine-tuning some of my doubts...

if i find some guys like u, who are also interested in this 15 min "aggressive" flow method, especially some experienced seniors who have been practicing this flow method (60 min) since quite some time, then we can all do this together... i feel 15 min is the minimum time frame perspective for this flow method - so there won't be any confusions...
(if we drop to 5 mins, then it wont actually be a flow method - this 5 min is anyway a guide during our normal intraday trades)
 

orderflow13

Well-Known Member
Sunil
I formulated the money management system for 30 min flow intra day for depending on 30 min flow as i got whipsawed with few frnds yesterday.
Can u test and start separate thread for 15 min ? its interesting thing coming around
 
V

vvvv

Guest
Vikram,....
appreciate your help buddy.
Will test it tonight.Also there is a debate among frnds back testing or experiments by live trading with small amount ( not even paper trade ) your views ? or in this case everybody's views appreciated
of course u shud back test ur system to have a gud idea of wht u can expect in the future.forward testing do it on live market with a limited qty focussing only on how much u r making evryday...thts my view.
send me ur email id ...& ill send u the pdf file
 

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