Teach A Man To Fish And.........

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Hello,

Do you believe that the last three day rally has ended the intermediate downtrend?
My analysis is giving a mixed signal.

Nifty ended below 5290 but got averaged up thus signal not clear as to whether we take it as a break of the fib. level or not.

Regards
Neo :)
Nope Neo.......as of 16th,NIFTY is still very much in an intermed dntrend.

Saint
 
Hello Saint,

Thanks a lot for seeding good knowledge about trading. Being an electronics engineer I always analyse in good length about the system, methods, trade-offs etc. Your posts made me to think trading as a disciplined activity. A very welcome thing in this kind of activity.

Regards,
venkatesh
Hi Venkatesh,

Welcome to Traderji and to the world of Trading.....

Saint
 
Hi Saint
can you outline some strategies for trading the sideways moving market as we are seeing nowadays in most of the scrips. Your strategy of following the trend is sound, but, when there is no predominant trend, what should I do? Should I sit with cash? Or, are there some other strategies to trade?

I guess this might be an old question and answer to this might have been given on some other thread in some other forum. But given that I've made you my guruji and that I follow the same strategy as you tech ('coz there is transparency in what you teach and after reading your "Teach a man to fish..." I've seriously learnt trading), I want to learn from you.
Cheers
djsinha
DJ,

There are many strategies for sideways market trading,drawing support and res lines,and then buying support and selling resistance........probably some other techniques using indicators et al.

Now there is a problem here..........If I were to trade a trend,and then the pivots crack,I would be stopped out.Presuming we get a 60min uptrend,we are long and after some time,we get a break in pivots..........we take our raised stops,and say thank you.We then wait for the 60min dntrend to be over and once we get a higher pivot low and high........we would enter.We think that the 60min is done with its down move,and the time has come back for the up move.........Or has it?Could it not go sideways,for many days?Yep,sure...........Entering at support begs the question ,Which support?Shorting the resistance begs the question:Which resistance?In doing so,we change our battle plans.We are back to that all important dreaded word:Guessing!

The problem with a sideways trend is the numerous fake outs in both directions......Not entering on a breakout,anticipating a fake out,can be a real pain when the true breakout does occur.Entering on every fake out and getting faked out can be trying on our patience,......very frustrating!

And yet,to shift strategy,thinking the uptrend is over,the sideways has started,etc.......it just means that we are no more Going With The Flow......we are no more adjusting the Sail as per the direction of the Wind........we have started thinking,predicting,we have started guessing,and in the long run that decision will come back to haunt us.

So then what do we do?How do we know for certain that the uptrend is over(that we can know,so we can get out!)and a sideways trend has started??We don't........and so,therefore,we do not leave the decision to prediction and anticipation.We therefore formulate certain rules and regulations that keep us out of certain trades as per the longer time frames.......and then,after all of this,we still have an Entry Signal,we take it,we put our stops,it could be a fake out,we are out if taken out.We reenter again when we get a signal again,we follow our system of attack come what may........

Sideways trends can be irritating,frustrating,and great amounts can get lost by getting stopped out.And therefore very crucial,very vital to squeeze out every last drop of a trend that does occur,when it does occur.........And when that trend comes back,we are piling on our positions,raising stop losses,and piling on...........We want every last bit because we know that when this trend is over,back comes that cursed sideways move,that will take some of our profits away!!

Saint

ps:lol on the guruji bit :D
 
@ saint and @ sillu : just wanted to say thanks to you both... saint for teaching the TA in such simple terms with thoughful notes and unmatched practical examples and sillu for compiling it into the form for easy to read. I have gone through it once and going through it the second time. I have Metastock 9 and have download EOD from 1995 for NSE to study in detail...

In addition i have Japnese Candle stick Chart Techniq by Steve Nison and ChartSchool Articles..... aiming ot finish reading these and side by side play with different Metastock charts...

What my query is i have downloaded it using a freeware where u just have to give the date and no list of scrips.... it downloads from NSE site itself, however i am in doubt of its authenticity.... as reliance power not present and a few shares data not there...
 
Hi master Saint,

Really appreciate your guidance in teaching us how to trade.. I have studied your thread and have this question: Could you elaborate on the difference between "swing" and "pivot"?? Thank you for your reply...
 
DJ,

There are many strategies for sideways market trading,drawing support and res lines,and then buying support and selling resistance........probably some other techniques using indicators et al.

Now there is a problem here..........If I were to trade a trend,and then the pivots crack,I would be stopped out.Presuming we get a 60min uptrend,we are long and after some time,we get a break in pivots..........we take our raised stops,and say thank you.We then wait for the 60min dntrend to be over and once we get a higher pivot low and high........we would enter.We think that the 60min is done with its down move,and the time has come back for the up move.........Or has it?Could it not go sideways,for many days?Yep,sure...........Entering at support begs the question ,Which support?Shorting the resistance begs the question:Which resistance?In doing so,we change our battle plans.We are back to that all important dreaded word:Guessing!

The problem with a sideways trend is the numerous fake outs in both directions......Not entering on a breakout,anticipating a fake out,can be a real pain when the true breakout does occur.Entering on every fake out and getting faked out can be trying on our patience,......very frustrating!

And yet,to shift strategy,thinking the uptrend is over,the sideways has started,etc.......it just means that we are no more Going With The Flow......we are no more adjusting the Sail as per the direction of the Wind........we have started thinking,predicting,we have started guessing,and in the long run that decision will come back to haunt us.

So then what do we do?How do we know for certain that the uptrend is over(that we can know,so we can get out!)and a sideways trend has started??We don't........and so,therefore,we do not leave the decision to prediction and anticipation.We therefore formulate certain rules and regulations that keep us out of certain trades as per the longer time frames.......and then,after all of this,we still have an Entry Signal,we take it,we put our stops,it could be a fake out,we are out if taken out.We reenter again when we get a signal again,we follow our system of attack come what may........

Sideways trends can be irritating,frustrating,and great amounts can get lost by getting stopped out.And therefore very crucial,very vital to squeeze out every last drop of a trend that does occur,when it does occur.........And when that trend comes back,we are piling on our positions,raising stop losses,and piling on...........We want every last bit because we know that when this trend is over,back comes that cursed sideways move,that will take some of our profits away!!

Saint

ps:lol on the guruji bit :D
Good insight Saint! Really for the last couple of days, I got frustrated trading the sideways market and getting stopped out every time. As I trade only the daily charts, I'm not getting anything attactive to trade. Well as outlined by you, I'll try to squeeze out everything. 'Coz as I understand, in a sideways moving market every tick does matter......and I need to be more careful to be with the flow till the very last.

Goodbye
Take care
Cheers
djsinha
 
@ saint and @ sillu : just wanted to say thanks to you both... saint for teaching the TA in such simple terms with thoughful notes and unmatched practical examples and sillu for compiling it into the form for easy to read. I have gone through it once and going through it the second time. I have Metastock 9 and have download EOD from 1995 for NSE to study in detail...

In addition i have Japnese Candle stick Chart Techniq by Steve Nison and ChartSchool Articles..... aiming ot finish reading these and side by side play with different Metastock charts...

What my query is i have downloaded it using a freeware where u just have to give the date and no list of scrips.... it downloads from NSE site itself, however i am in doubt of its authenticity.... as reliance power not present and a few shares data not there...

If you have doubt regarding authenticity of something as far as trading is concerned, do not use it esp. for charts....'coz charts are our bible. Everything depends on these charts.
I personally use Metastock 8.0 and I download EOD data (for both BSE and NSE) from the ***** group 'bse-nse2005'. Their data is quite reliable and I'm facing no problem in trading with that data.

The link for the ***** group:
http://in.groups.**********/group/bse-nse2005/
Join the group....go to the files section....stock data files....February2008....and you get the daily EOD as .zip files..
under the consolidated files section u can have prev month's EOD data.

The .zip files contain EOD data as .CSV files. Uploading to metastock will not be a problem as such with the downloader.

Commodities data(EOD) are also avaliable in bse-nse2005 in case u r interested in those.

Hope this helps
cheers
djsinha
 
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