Thoughts on Day/Swing Trading
- Thread starter Smart_trade
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But I would rather that he takes care of his back first than thinking to make Vince chewable for you, Murthy! 
Good night
Good night
And you know what is there at the back of the mind of every reader who follows this thread !!
I think you got things wrong when "EagleOne" mentioned "takes care of his back " he meant ST's health .
I am not clear on what you are trying to convey by saying ..."And you know what is there at the back of the mind of every reader who
follows this thread !!
"Irrespective of what you meant(what is there at the back of the mind of every reader)..., In my Opinion doesn't matter How many times a person would read Saint or ST's thread yet before one makes consistent profit he is bound to loose ..., WHY ?
In Laymans terms ( Atleast In My Opinion ) Learning to trade is like learning How to Ride a bicycle ..., Irrespective of what instructions One has heard from an Expert (How to Ride a Bicycle ? ) he is bound to Fall and Get hurt WHY ?..., Because he needs to learn How to BALANCE ( Call it MM, Position Sizing ...w.r.t Trading)?..., Well once he learns this(BALANCE) he will still continue doing what the Expert's told him before he learnt how to ride a Bicycle ....,the difference is now( When he is able to make consistent Profit ) he has learnt How to BALANCE...
The Question Would be How much Risk ( Of His Capital) Can an individual Take before He Learns How to Balance ?
Wish you Good Luck in All your trades.
NB
gm stda
u r using amibroker, isn't it?
i tried to calculate it manually. instead of taking true high i considered high of the first candle. it is nice to understand the logic before start of using any software. how the support and resistance lines are plotted for every day when there are no buy or sell set ups?i mean the chart shows buy and sell set up for every day?
regards,
girish
u r using amibroker, isn't it?
i tried to calculate it manually. instead of taking true high i considered high of the first candle. it is nice to understand the logic before start of using any software. how the support and resistance lines are plotted for every day when there are no buy or sell set ups?i mean the chart shows buy and sell set up for every day?
regards,
girish
Dear Girish,
We need 9 continuous bars for a complete setup. We draw the Resistance TDST
(in case of Buy setup) or the Support TDST (in case of Sell Setup), only after
all the 9 bars are formed continuously.
The Resistance TDST drawn as above is valid till a new Buy Setup is
encountered. Similarly, the Support TDST drawn is valid till a new Sell Setup
is encountered.
(And please consider the true high of the first bar or the highest high of
the 9 bars - whichever is greater as the resistance. Mirror image for
Support ...)
We need 9 continuous bars for a complete setup. We draw the Resistance TDST
(in case of Buy setup) or the Support TDST (in case of Sell Setup), only after
all the 9 bars are formed continuously.
The Resistance TDST drawn as above is valid till a new Buy Setup is
encountered. Similarly, the Support TDST drawn is valid till a new Sell Setup
is encountered.
(And please consider the true high of the first bar or the highest high of
the 9 bars - whichever is greater as the resistance. Mirror image for
Support ...)
Girish,
hi stda,
you said-
"A buy set up means a set up leading to Sequential Buy signal.....it is always a downtrend so on completion of 9 bars of buy setup we get a horrizontal line from true high of the bar having highest high in the entire set up....so on completion of buy set up you get a line which needs to be taken out if the downtrend is to be negated....hence a resistance line....hope now you wont find it contradictory."
i thought this is a set up for trading market where we are supposed to buy at support and sell at resistance . hence as per buy set up i was expecting a buy support line. any way pl confirm whether amibroker has indicator builtin for these setups or you have to tweak with software?do you recommend calculating the tdst buy sell levels manually?also longform for tdst- is it thomas demarks sequential trading set up.?
regards,
girish
hi stda,
you said-
"A buy set up means a set up leading to Sequential Buy signal.....it is always a downtrend so on completion of 9 bars of buy setup we get a horrizontal line from true high of the bar having highest high in the entire set up....so on completion of buy set up you get a line which needs to be taken out if the downtrend is to be negated....hence a resistance line....hope now you wont find it contradictory."
i thought this is a set up for trading market where we are supposed to buy at support and sell at resistance . hence as per buy set up i was expecting a buy support line. any way pl confirm whether amibroker has indicator builtin for these setups or you have to tweak with software?do you recommend calculating the tdst buy sell levels manually?also longform for tdst- is it thomas demarks sequential trading set up.?
regards,
girish
hi stda,
sorry to bother again and again giving rules downloaded from internet- which is asking us to buy on completion of buy set up for a probable target of resistance line-
Demark Trading Rules for TD Setup / TD Sequential
posted Jul 3, 2010 7:55 AM by David W [ updated Apr 21, 2011 8:21 AM ]
Below is based on the Book "Demark Indicators" by Jason Perl
BUY
SELL
TD Buy Setup
TD Sell Setup
Duration 9 price bars
9 price bars
Signal 9 consecutive, CLOSE < CLOSE 4 bars earlier
9 consecutive, Close > Close 4 bars earlier
TDST Support True LOW of last completed TD SELL Setup TDST Resistance True HIGH of last completed TD BUY Setup
To Trade Setups: (see p. 13-14 To Trade Setups: (see p. 16-17
Perfection LOW of 8 or 9 < LOW of 6 AND 7 HIGH of 8 or 9 > HIGH of 6 and 7
AND AND
Trading If no CLOSE's of 1-9 < Support, then check proximity If no CLOSE's of 1-9 > Resistance, then check proximity
Proximity Check CLOSE of 9 is in proximity to Support CLOSE of 9 < Support + 0.236(True Range of current Setup). Note: this is my own definition. CLOSE of 9 is in proximity to Resistance CLOSE of 9 > Resistance - 0.236(True Range of current Setup)
Risk Level (Stop-Loss) a)Find bar with Lowest LOW of Setup. b) Calc. True Range of that bar, and c) Subtract true range from that bar's LOW a)Find bar with Highest HIGH of Setup. b) Calc. True Range of that bar, and c) Add true range to that bar's HIGH
Buy IF: (Current Setup Resistance Level - 9 CLOSE) > 1.5 * (9 CLOSE - TD Risk Level) Sell Short IF: (9 CLOSE - Current Setup Support) > 1.5*(TD Risk Level - 9 CLOSE)
Expected Return: Price to rise toward Resistance (True High of Current Setup) I've noted a response with 4 bars Price to fall toward Support (True LOW of Current Setup) I've noted a response with 4 bars
otherwise, continue to TD Countdown otherwise, continue to TD Countdown
TD Buy Countdown TD Sell Countdown
Reminder!! Continue to Countdown ONLY if a CLOSE of the Setup was below Support - otherwise look to trade the Setup Continue to Countdown ONLY if a CLOSE of the Setup was above Resistance - otherwise look to trade the Setup
Begin Bar 9 of Setup Bar 9 of Setup
Signal 13 bars, each counted when CLOSE < LOW of 2 bars prior 13 bars, each counted when CLOSE > HIGH of 2 bars prior
Cancellation 1) price rallies and generates a SELL Setup; or 2) price rallies and posts a LOW above Resistance p. 21 1) Price falls and generats a BUY Setup; or 2) Price falls and posts a HIGH below Support
Recycling If a TD Buy SETUP continues to 18 bars, then any PRIOR Countdown in same direction is Cancelled. p. 22 If a TD Sell SETUP continues to 18 bars, then any prior Countdown in same direction is Cancelled.
Perfection LOW of 13 < CLOSE of 8 (Countdown continues with '+' until this is met. HIGH of 13 > CLOSE of 8 (Countdown continues with a '+' until this is met.
Risk Level (Stop Loss) a)Find bar with Lowest LOW of Countdown (even if not a numbered bar). b) Calc. True Range of that bar, and c) Subtract true range from that bar's LOW p. 26 a)Find bar with Highest HIGH of Countdown (even if not a numbered bar). b) Calc. True Range of that bar, and c) Add true range to that bar's HIGH p. 39
Expected Return: "meaningful response expected within 12 bars" "meaningful response expected within 12 bars" p. 40
regards,
girish
sorry the page gave buy and sell set ups in 2 vertical halfs of page which are intermixed on pasting.
sorry to bother again and again giving rules downloaded from internet- which is asking us to buy on completion of buy set up for a probable target of resistance line-
Demark Trading Rules for TD Setup / TD Sequential
posted Jul 3, 2010 7:55 AM by David W [ updated Apr 21, 2011 8:21 AM ]
Below is based on the Book "Demark Indicators" by Jason Perl
BUY
SELL
TD Buy Setup
TD Sell Setup
Duration 9 price bars
9 price bars
Signal 9 consecutive, CLOSE < CLOSE 4 bars earlier
9 consecutive, Close > Close 4 bars earlier
TDST Support True LOW of last completed TD SELL Setup TDST Resistance True HIGH of last completed TD BUY Setup
To Trade Setups: (see p. 13-14 To Trade Setups: (see p. 16-17
Perfection LOW of 8 or 9 < LOW of 6 AND 7 HIGH of 8 or 9 > HIGH of 6 and 7
AND AND
Trading If no CLOSE's of 1-9 < Support, then check proximity If no CLOSE's of 1-9 > Resistance, then check proximity
Proximity Check CLOSE of 9 is in proximity to Support CLOSE of 9 < Support + 0.236(True Range of current Setup). Note: this is my own definition. CLOSE of 9 is in proximity to Resistance CLOSE of 9 > Resistance - 0.236(True Range of current Setup)
Risk Level (Stop-Loss) a)Find bar with Lowest LOW of Setup. b) Calc. True Range of that bar, and c) Subtract true range from that bar's LOW a)Find bar with Highest HIGH of Setup. b) Calc. True Range of that bar, and c) Add true range to that bar's HIGH
Buy IF: (Current Setup Resistance Level - 9 CLOSE) > 1.5 * (9 CLOSE - TD Risk Level) Sell Short IF: (9 CLOSE - Current Setup Support) > 1.5*(TD Risk Level - 9 CLOSE)
Expected Return: Price to rise toward Resistance (True High of Current Setup) I've noted a response with 4 bars Price to fall toward Support (True LOW of Current Setup) I've noted a response with 4 bars
otherwise, continue to TD Countdown otherwise, continue to TD Countdown
TD Buy Countdown TD Sell Countdown
Reminder!! Continue to Countdown ONLY if a CLOSE of the Setup was below Support - otherwise look to trade the Setup Continue to Countdown ONLY if a CLOSE of the Setup was above Resistance - otherwise look to trade the Setup
Begin Bar 9 of Setup Bar 9 of Setup
Signal 13 bars, each counted when CLOSE < LOW of 2 bars prior 13 bars, each counted when CLOSE > HIGH of 2 bars prior
Cancellation 1) price rallies and generates a SELL Setup; or 2) price rallies and posts a LOW above Resistance p. 21 1) Price falls and generats a BUY Setup; or 2) Price falls and posts a HIGH below Support
Recycling If a TD Buy SETUP continues to 18 bars, then any PRIOR Countdown in same direction is Cancelled. p. 22 If a TD Sell SETUP continues to 18 bars, then any prior Countdown in same direction is Cancelled.
Perfection LOW of 13 < CLOSE of 8 (Countdown continues with '+' until this is met. HIGH of 13 > CLOSE of 8 (Countdown continues with a '+' until this is met.
Risk Level (Stop Loss) a)Find bar with Lowest LOW of Countdown (even if not a numbered bar). b) Calc. True Range of that bar, and c) Subtract true range from that bar's LOW p. 26 a)Find bar with Highest HIGH of Countdown (even if not a numbered bar). b) Calc. True Range of that bar, and c) Add true range to that bar's HIGH p. 39
Expected Return: "meaningful response expected within 12 bars" "meaningful response expected within 12 bars" p. 40
regards,
girish
sorry the page gave buy and sell set ups in 2 vertical halfs of page which are intermixed on pasting.
Girish,
TDST stands for TD Set up Trend.....the 9 bars set up kickstarts a trend and the base lelel is TDST. All DeMark indicators start with TD ( means Thomas DeMark.
TDST lines are like a meter of the market activity. Once you are experienced in handling these lines, you can think of various ways of using those lines. Suppose a buy set up completes 9 buy set up bars and you get a buy TDST which is a blue line acting as a resistance line. Now you have a sell set up that means market completes a sell set up 9 bars but till the completion of 9 bars the earlier resistance line or a blue buy set up line is not taken out.....that gives you a great place to enter a sell trade because the resistance line is intact and you expect the market to come to support line or a red line and take a support , if not break that support and go for a fresh buy set up. This is what is meant by Jason Perl in his book on DeMark Indicators.
One can try various application of these lines to enter new trades or taking profits from the already taken positions. This is one of the great tools in the hands of an alert trader......how he uses it is entirely up to that trader himself. The Apollo Tyres chart posted by me few posts back shows 1-2 such instances which offer great low risk trading opportunities.
Smart_trade
TDST stands for TD Set up Trend.....the 9 bars set up kickstarts a trend and the base lelel is TDST. All DeMark indicators start with TD ( means Thomas DeMark.
TDST lines are like a meter of the market activity. Once you are experienced in handling these lines, you can think of various ways of using those lines. Suppose a buy set up completes 9 buy set up bars and you get a buy TDST which is a blue line acting as a resistance line. Now you have a sell set up that means market completes a sell set up 9 bars but till the completion of 9 bars the earlier resistance line or a blue buy set up line is not taken out.....that gives you a great place to enter a sell trade because the resistance line is intact and you expect the market to come to support line or a red line and take a support , if not break that support and go for a fresh buy set up. This is what is meant by Jason Perl in his book on DeMark Indicators.
One can try various application of these lines to enter new trades or taking profits from the already taken positions. This is one of the great tools in the hands of an alert trader......how he uses it is entirely up to that trader himself. The Apollo Tyres chart posted by me few posts back shows 1-2 such instances which offer great low risk trading opportunities.
Smart_trade
Posting a chart which works on a simple method which trades in the direction of a moving average slope and colour.....all trades taken have valid reasons ....so are profits taken at various points......every trade is not a big winner but the last trade is a big winner....
Posting this just to illustrate that simple method with proper position sizing, adds, profit taking.....stops ...can make money in daytrading....you cannot eliminate loosing trades....loosing trades are unavoidable evils and you have to accept them as a part of your job.....but let the winning trades be your friends and let them overpower the loosing trades....
Smart_trade
I read this entire thread 3 times & found very simple & easy to execute. Thanks for presenting us with this simple method. It suits my temperment & accessibility ( only PIB chart ). But i could not comprehend reason of exits for shorts. No problem with entries. Are the reasons ...up move next to Aggresive Pivots. Please help me with elaboration.
One more query plz...is it advisable to day trade with OPTIONS with watching levels in NF.......Thanx a lot......SLMuncle
Last edited:
Dear SLM uncle,
Thanks for your kind words. I am happy that the ideas /methods presented are useful in your trading.I have used these methods for many years myself too.....These methods are being traded profitably in realtime trading by many.
Profit taking in daytrades is a delicate balance between two contradictory and often conflicting principles of " grab your profits,else they will disappear...." and " Let your profits run"......daytraders need to have a different mindset than swing traders or position traders and they have to take profits on first sign of market going against their trade direction.
So if we are short , and market after going down for 3-5 bars, stops making new low and goes sideways,prints a aggressive pivot and if sideways range's top is taken out, take profits. If market makes a hammer with long tail and the hammer's top takenout, take profits but instead of top getting taken out, the low is cracked ,come forward and add in your short positions.....candlestick patterns come handy here....
But the above should not be confused with getting scared and taking quick profits without any reason. That we avoid....you will see that on first two short trades in the charted quoted by you we took quick profits but we waited and added in 3rd trade....why ? because there was no indication of market reversing and we got a big trade and we booked profits at the support levels shown in the chart. While booking profits, flags are the worst enemies of daytraders.....but based on the previous bars one can anticipate the flags and stay clear of them. We need to stay in the profitable trade for a long time to let the trade mature too.......
Regarding options , yes you can trade options when you get a trade signal on the charts. So if you get a signal to short the market, you can either buy ITM puts or ATM puts and ride the trend. You can also sell ATM calls....that choice is really based on your estimate of how strong the down move will be.
Best wishes,
Smart_trade
Thanks for your kind words. I am happy that the ideas /methods presented are useful in your trading.I have used these methods for many years myself too.....These methods are being traded profitably in realtime trading by many.
Profit taking in daytrades is a delicate balance between two contradictory and often conflicting principles of " grab your profits,else they will disappear...." and " Let your profits run"......daytraders need to have a different mindset than swing traders or position traders and they have to take profits on first sign of market going against their trade direction.
So if we are short , and market after going down for 3-5 bars, stops making new low and goes sideways,prints a aggressive pivot and if sideways range's top is taken out, take profits. If market makes a hammer with long tail and the hammer's top takenout, take profits but instead of top getting taken out, the low is cracked ,come forward and add in your short positions.....candlestick patterns come handy here....
But the above should not be confused with getting scared and taking quick profits without any reason. That we avoid....you will see that on first two short trades in the charted quoted by you we took quick profits but we waited and added in 3rd trade....why ? because there was no indication of market reversing and we got a big trade and we booked profits at the support levels shown in the chart. While booking profits, flags are the worst enemies of daytraders.....but based on the previous bars one can anticipate the flags and stay clear of them. We need to stay in the profitable trade for a long time to let the trade mature too.......
Regarding options , yes you can trade options when you get a trade signal on the charts. So if you get a signal to short the market, you can either buy ITM puts or ATM puts and ride the trend. You can also sell ATM calls....that choice is really based on your estimate of how strong the down move will be.
Best wishes,
Smart_trade
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