Trading as a part time profession.

Status
Not open for further replies.

fjl24

Active Member
#51
How to fine tune the method to suit your style?

1. You can either trade in futures or in Stock using the same method.
2. Instead of exiting entirely at SAR, exit at desired profit level, For eg, Enter at any PH OR PL and use the same procedure for SAR, once you get your desired profit level, exit and then re-enter again at another PH or PL
3. You can add 10-15 stock scrips in your watch list and then enter accordingly and exit at comfortable level, before hitting SAR.

Whatever you do, make sure you are in profit.

You make your strategy according to the capital you have.

Thanks and regards,
Rajendrani
Dear Rajendra

What mode is advisable for adopting the proposed trading strategy:-

Trading in stocks or
Trading in futures

If trade is in stocks then newbees would require deep pockets (unless they trade in less quantities) as they would not be able to trade on margin money which is applicable for day trading thus reducing the leverage factor.

Have you by any chance applied this strategy for day trading and if yes what is the level of success that you observed in day trades.

Regards
Floyd:):):)
 

fjl24

Active Member
#52
Columbus I would like to disagree with you on this point that Trading needs to be done Full Time and those who are taking it as second profession have got to loose, totally disagree.

Daily charts can make a lot of money given that a trader has a Sound Trading System, Money management ( plus deep pockets) and most importantly have Patience to take many small losses for making few large profits.

I suppose that should not take more than 15 mis. per day but will require nerves of steel and real great discipline. But tha does not mean you can get away from hard work, you still will have to put efforts to put money in your pockets
Dear Friends

I do not totally agree or disagree for that matter with Columbus but would like to mention to all newbees based on my personal bad experiences with day trading that all part time traders need to be on their alert.

I too am on a full time job and a newbee to TA. Inspite of having gone through this blog and various books and vidoes on TA and money management and definitely being well aware of the concepts of money management, stop losses etc. got sucked into a situation wherein i lost a heavy sum of money on a single day purely because i used to place mental stops and on the illfated day of the Satyam fiasco i placed a long trade in one of the scrips (other than satyam) and got preocuppied in a management meeting only to find out in an extremely short span of an hour or two that i had lost my entire trading capital just in one trade purely because of the mental stop strategy that i had adopted.

Would advise all newbees and part time TA traders on another job to strictly stick to applying physical stop losses on the systems rather than mental stops as you never know when and what could draw you away from your screens.

Also, please do not rely on your RM's or brokers and always keep the strings and controls in your hands only. Resort to brokers and RM's in extreme conditions only.

At the moment i am down but not out.

I intend to take up this field as a full time profession and pretty well know that it takes at least 3 to 4 years of hard work before achieving a level of professionalism and thus agree with rajendra and prabhjeetrana that we need to start now when we can take calculated financial risks with our existing jobs to support us.

But one last time friends - do not commit the same blunder that i did as a part time trader on the job.

Thanks and Regards
Floyd:):):)
 

kiranb

Well-Known Member
#53
hi raj
thank u for ur posts
me here a part time beginer trader :confused:
like to know if u have AFL to plot pivot high and pivot low for amibroker
if any have please send to my mail
dnana_28@y a h o o . c o m
it will be helpfull to fine tune my learning in pivots
thank u
Dnana

I hope this below link can help to find out the pivots in ami

http://www.amibroker.com/library/formula.php?id=359


I am also new to afl programming. But i have modified the above code so that we can use it to my preferences, I hope the below code helps u to find out the Pivot highs and Pivot lows but SARs are not marked. You can use the below code to identify the pivots in all time frames.


What u need to do is:

1) Select the number of bars from where you want to find the pivots.
2) Select the number of bars from which u want to identify the pivot.

/* **********************************

Code to automatically Points Pivot Highs and Pivot Lows

********************************** */

// Count the number of bars

TotBars=0;
for( i = 0; i < BarCount; i++ )
{
TotBars++;
}

// -- what will be our lookback range for the hh and ll?

farback=Param("How Far back to go",4,4,TotBars,10);
nBars = Param("Number of bars", 3, 3, 40);
GraphXSpace=7;

// -- Create 0-initialized arrays the size of barcount

aHPivs = H - H;
aLPivs = L - L;

// -- More for future use, not necessary for basic plotting

aHPivHighs = H - H;
aLPivLows = L - L;
aHPivIdxs = H - H;
aLPivIdxs = L - L;
nHPivs = 0;
nLPivs = 0;
lastHPIdx = 0;
lastLPIdx = 0;
lastHPH = 0;
lastLPL = 0;
curPivBarIdx = 0;

// -- looking back from the current bar, how many bars

// back were the hhv and llv values of the previous

// n bars, etc.?

aHHVBars = HHVBars(H, nBars);
aLLVBars = LLVBars(L, nBars);
aHHV = HHV(H, nBars);
aLLV = LLV(L, nBars);

// -- Would like to set this up so pivots are calculated back from

// last visible bar to make it easy to "go back" and see the pivots

// this code would find. However, the first instance of

// _Trace output will show a value of 0

aVisBars = Status("barvisible");

nLastVisBar = LastValue(Highest(IIf(aVisBars, BarIndex(), 0)));

_TRACE("Last visible bar: " + nLastVisBar);

// -- Initialize value of curTrend

//curBar = (BarCount-1);


curBar = (TotBars-1);

curTrend = "";

if (aLLVBars[curBar] < aHHVBars[curBar])
curTrend = "D";
else
curTrend = "U";


// -- Loop through bars. Search for

// entirely array-based approach

// in future version

for (i=0; i<TotBars; i++)
{

curBar = (BarCount - 1) - i;

// -- Have we identified a pivot? If trend is down...

if (aLLVBars[curBar] < aHHVBars[curBar])
{

// ... and had been up, this is a trend change

if (curTrend == "U")
{
curTrend = "D";

// -- Capture pivot information

curPivBarIdx = curBar - aLLVBars[curBar];
aLPivs[curPivBarIdx] = 1;
aLPivLows[nLPivs] = L[curPivBarIdx];
aLPivIdxs[nLPivs] = curPivBarIdx;
nLPivs++;

}

// -- or current trend is up

}
else
{
if (curTrend == "D")
{
curTrend = "U";
curPivBarIdx = curBar - aHHVBars[curBar];
aHPivs[curPivBarIdx] = 1;
aHPivHighs[nHPivs] = H[curPivBarIdx];
aHPivIdxs[nHPivs] = curPivBarIdx;
nHPivs++;
}
// -- If curTrend is up...else...
}
// -- loop through bars
}

// -- Basic attempt to add a pivot this logic may have missed

// -- OK, now I want to look at last two pivots. If the most

// recent low pivot is after the last high, I could

// still have a high pivot that I didn't catch

// -- Start at last bar

curBar = (BarCount-1);
candIdx = 0;
candPrc = 0;
lastLPIdx = aLPivIdxs[0];
lastLPL = aLPivLows[0];
lastHPIdx = aHPivIdxs[0];
lastHPH = aHPivHighs[0];

if (lastLPIdx > lastHPIdx)
{

// -- Bar and price info for candidate pivot

candIdx = curBar - aHHVBars[curBar];
candPrc = aHHV[curBar];

if (lastHPH < candPrc AND candIdx > lastLPIdx AND candIdx < curBar)
{

// -- OK, we'll add this as a pivot...

aHPivs[candIdx] = 1;

// ...and then rearrange elements in the

// pivot information arrays

for (j=0; j<nHPivs; j++)
{
aHPivHighs[nHPivs-j] = aHPivHighs[nHPivs-(j+1)];
aHPivIdxs[nHPivs-j] = aHPivIdxs[nHPivs-(j+1)];
}

aHPivHighs[0] = candPrc ;
aHPivIdxs[0] = candIdx;
nHPivs++;

}

}
else
{

// -- Bar and price info for candidate pivot

candIdx = curBar - aLLVBars[curBar];
candPrc = aLLV[curBar];

if (lastLPL > candPrc AND candIdx > lastHPIdx AND candIdx < curBar)
{


// -- OK, we'll add this as a pivot...

aLPivs[candIdx] = 1;

// ...and then rearrange elements in the

// pivot information arrays

for (j=0; j<nLPivs; j++)
{
aLPivLows[nLPivs-j] = aLPivLows[nLPivs-(j+1)];
aLPivIdxs[nLPivs-j] = aLPivIdxs[nLPivs-(j+1)];
}
aLPivLows[0] = candPrc;
aLPivIdxs[0] = candIdx;
nLPivs++;
}
}


// To Mark the pivot Highs.

Hp=IIf(aHPivs==1,1,0);

dist = 0.5*ATR(10);
for( i = 0; i < BarCount; i++ )
{
HiVal = StrFormat("%g",H);
if(Hp) PlotText("PH",i,H+dist,colorRed);
}

// To Mark the pivot Lows.
LP=IIf(aLPivs==1,1,0);

for( i = 0; i < BarCount; i++ )
{
LoVal = StrFormat("%g",L);
if(LP) PlotText("PL",i,L-dist,colorGreen);
}


 
Last edited:

rajendrani

Well-Known Member
#55
Dear Rajendra

What mode is advisable for adopting the proposed trading strategy:-

Trading in stocks or
Trading in futures

If trade is in stocks then newbees would require deep pockets (unless they trade in less quantities) as they would not be able to trade on margin money which is applicable for day trading thus reducing the leverage factor.

Have you by any chance applied this strategy for day trading and if yes what is the level of success that you observed in day trades.

Regards
Floyd:):):)
Floyd for trading this strategy, trading in futures is the best option, because only futures will giving you the option of short selling.

If some on has to trade with stocks in cash market in delivery mode, then they can trade the rally or the uptrend and stay away from the downtrend or decline.

Trading in stocks and futures will definitely requires deep pockets. Money management definately needs to be taken in consideration. There may be few small losses in beginning and then you might get some big profits, so money management plays a big role for this trading strategy.

I havent applied this strategy for day trading, but will try to backtest using the 5, 10, 15 and 30 min tf for day trading.

I personally use the mini flow method daytrading and its really good and is giving good result, Please follow the miniflow thread for more details on that.

Best of luck for your trading bro,

Thanks and regards,
Rajendrani
 

rajendrani

Well-Known Member
#56
Dnana

I hope this below link can help to find out the pivots in ami

http://www.amibroker.com/library/formula.php?id=359


I am also new to afl programming. But i have modified the above code so that we can use it to my preferences, I hope the below code helps u to find out the Pivot highs and Pivot lows but SARs are not marked. You can use the below code to identify the pivots in all time frames.


What u need to do is:

1) Select the number of bars from where you want to find the pivots.
2) Select the number of bars from which u want to identify the pivot.
Thanks kiran for providing this afl,

Regards,
rajendrani
 

fjl24

Active Member
#57
Floyd for trading this strategy, trading in futures is the best option, because only futures will giving you the option of short selling.

If some on has to trade with stocks in cash market in delivery mode, then they can trade the rally or the uptrend and stay away from the downtrend or decline.

Trading in stocks and futures will definitely requires deep pockets. Money management definately needs to be taken in consideration. There may be few small losses in beginning and then you might get some big profits, so money management plays a big role for this trading strategy.

I havent applied this strategy for day trading, but will try to backtest using the 5, 10, 15 and 30 min tf for day trading.

I personally use the mini flow method daytrading and its really good and is giving good result, Please follow the miniflow thread for more details on that.

Best of luck for your trading bro,

Thanks and regards,
Rajendrani
Dear Rajendra

Thanks a million

Regards
Floyd:):):)
 

fjl24

Active Member
#58
Dear Rajendra

Thanks a million

Regards
Floyd:):):)
Hi Rajendra and to all our seniors on this thread

Just one question. I had avoided putting physical stops because my broker/rm had told me that the dealer can view the physical stops placed and thus manipulate the prices to stop you out of a trade.

How much truth is there in this statement of the broker/rm. Because if that be the case if would be very difficult to put manual/physical stops and based on my previous bad experiences of placing mental stops it would be absolutely impossible for me to participate in a trade.

Have any of you experienced this thing practically or is it purely a concocted statement.

Thanks in anticipation
Regards
Floyd:)
 

AW10

Well-Known Member
#59
Hi Rajendra and to all our seniors on this thread

Just one question. I had avoided putting physical stops because my broker/rm had told me that the dealer can view the physical stops placed and thus manipulate the prices to stop you out of a trade.

How much truth is there in this statement of the broker/rm. Because if that be the case if would be very difficult to put manual/physical stops and based on my previous bad experiences of placing mental stops it would be absolutely impossible for me to participate in a trade.

Have any of you experienced this thing practically or is it purely a concocted statement.

Thanks in anticipation
Regards
Floyd:)
In my view, suggestion from yr broker/RM as as far as from the reality of trading as moon from the earth. If you blow yr acct, your RM is not going to loose anything but only YOU will. So take charge of your trading..and use inputs from others to make decision. don't buy others decision blindly.
It is not that whole market is watching yr order.. or few stock/contract to get u out..

Stops are only protection that u can place in the market..
ofcourse it has its own limitation due to slippage.. you might get stopped out..knowing where to place it..etc..
It is human natrue to be optimist and look for the +ive, even if the probability is very less (so many people still by lottary, where the chance of success even less then 0.5%).
And we don't accept -ives where probability is high or even 100% (chk out how many times we end up holiding on to loosing trade i.e. 100% wrong decision).

IMO, stops are must for any serious trader.. specially till the time we have not mastered the art of discipline and reading the market and making our tradnig decisions with 95%+ accuracy.

- learn where to put your stops (there are many ways defined in the litrature)
- back test your stops strategy.. and ensure that it is really protecting u from wrong trade and not cutting off your winner..
- Take the courage to accept the fact "YES, I CAN BE WRONG IN THE MARKET AND IN THIS CASE I AM WRONG"
- Do not hestitate to get back into trade if all other factors that made to take original long trade are still in place. Backtest and plan, how many reentry you want to attempt.
Many of us are hurt when our stops are hit and in that pain, we get blind to see the next opportunity that market is presenting to us.

so look at the picture and make stops part of your trading plan.

Happy Trading.
 

fjl24

Active Member
#60
In my view, suggestion from yr broker/RM as as far as from the reality of trading as moon from the earth. If you blow yr acct, your RM is not going to loose anything but only YOU will. So take charge of your trading..and use inputs from others to make decision. don't buy others decision blindly.
It is not that whole market is watching yr order.. or few stock/contract to get u out..

Stops are only protection that u can place in the market..
ofcourse it has its own limitation due to slippage.. you might get stopped out..knowing where to place it..etc..
It is human natrue to be optimist and look for the +ive, even if the probability is very less (so many people still by lottary, where the chance of success even less then 0.5%).
And we don't accept -ives where probability is high or even 100% (chk out how many times we end up holiding on to loosing trade i.e. 100% wrong decision).

IMO, stops are must for any serious trader.. specially till the time we have not mastered the art of discipline and reading the market and making our tradnig decisions with 95%+ accuracy.

- learn where to put your stops (there are many ways defined in the litrature)
- back test your stops strategy.. and ensure that it is really protecting u from wrong trade and not cutting off your winner..
- Take the courage to accept the fact "YES, I CAN BE WRONG IN THE MARKET AND IN THIS CASE I AM WRONG"
- Do not hestitate to get back into trade if all other factors that made to take original long trade are still in place. Backtest and plan, how many reentry you want to attempt.
Many of us are hurt when our stops are hit and in that pain, we get blind to see the next opportunity that market is presenting to us.

so look at the picture and make stops part of your trading plan.

Happy Trading.
Hi AW10

Thanks a million for your reply. I have already been trapped once in the situation that you are stating above by placing mental stops and have also paid the price for it by losing/wiping out my entire capital.

Learnt my lesson the hard way round.

Thanks and Regards
Floyd:):):)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.