Trading Nifty

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
Dear RKkarnani,

I have booked profit at 4290 as said earlier. My gains for the day are 35 points on the Nifty i.e. 1750/-.

Took no tension, could afford to go out also for some time, secure in the knowledge that my long positin is safe.

My success would lie when you, my friend would agree that my method works well and i am confident that that day shall come soon within this month.

I appreciate your following my thread.

With best wishes,

Gaurav Kumar
Had posted the earlier message without reading this message. Had gone long above 4281 and still holding. Part qty. bought for intraday was exited due to SL :mad:
I shall post my views about the shortcoming I feel your system might have, ane beware my views would be worth maybe a dime only as I am myself still a learner. The only thing I pride myself in is my discpline. More on getting some spare time. Regards. -R.K.Karnani
 
U

uasish

Guest
Gaurav,
One thing is niggling at the back of my mind,why we are defending.When your anticipation of Nifty's movement still now is spot on,then why we are obstinately carrying a confirmed MTM loss ,whenever the 1st anticipatory position went against me if i have booked loss then ,now with all these dot on Right speculation ,i am well in profit (over & above my earlier booked loss).
Wrigling out of a Boxed situation is a Must quality of a good Trader,which you have demostrated in abundance,but somehow it seems our attitude is Defending a Loss.
Hope you understand the spirit ,this is a Thread i visit everyday.
Asish
 
Gaurav,
One thing is niggling at the back of my mind,why we are defending.When your anticipation of Nifty's movement still now is spot on,then why we are obstinately carrying a confirmed MTM loss ,whenever the 1st anticipatory position went against me if i have booked loss then ,now with all these dot on Right speculation ,i am well in profit (over & above my earlier booked loss).
Wrigling out of a Boxed situation is a Must quality of a good Trader,which you have demostrated in abundance,but somehow it seems our attitude is Defending a Loss.
Hope you understand the spirit ,this is a Thread i visit everyday.
Asish
Dear Ashish,

Let me clarify.

Till the day CRR hike was announced, i was sure that the market would go up, so the question was of defending a small M to M loss which i would do.

Once the CRR hike was announced, i hedged at an appropriate time. I could have exited but market patterns showed a big possibility of an upmove before the fall. The upmove happened and we ended the day 4500 +. I should have exited before close, but i got a bit greedy. I considered the possibility that the market would open up first, touch 4550 and then fall, so i did not exit the long position and decided to exit the next morning.

That was a mistake in hind sight. Next day the market opened very weak. In my view if i am sure that the market would bounce back and i am in a position to handle the M to M loss, i should do so. This is because booking a loss is very easy and erodes your capital and also makes you impulsive in order to retrieve the loss.

Of course, had the market opened flat that day and then fallen, i would definitely have exited taking a minor loss in stride.

As also if i am to be sure that the market is condemned to a long term trend reversal, i would surely look to exit rather than hold on.

Ashish, i have visited some of your threads and like what you write. I welcome your comments (and will accept critism from anybody also with a positive attitude). My earlier reactions to some members was not out of fear of getting critised but because some members repeatedly mocked me without understanding what i was saying.

Keep your questions coming. would help me.
With best wishes,

Gaurav Kumar
 
Had posted the earlier message without reading this message. Had gone long above 4281 and still holding. Part qty. bought for intraday was exited due to SL :mad:
I shall post my views about the shortcoming I feel your system might have, ane beware my views would be worth maybe a dime only as I am myself still a learner. The only thing I pride myself in is my discpline. More on getting some spare time. Regards. -R.K.Karnani
Dear RKkarnani,

Good to hear something positive from you. We all are learners. even though i have 8 years of experience in the markets, there is still a lot to learn.

As i have said before the person who makes money is the king, whatever the technique may be. So no harm done. My thread is only to educate people that there are alternative means which give high returns (you will see for yourself ) and also gives less tension.

All the best, may you make tons of money and hope none of your SL are ever trigerred .

With best wishes,
Gaurav Kumar
 
U

uasish

Guest
Though the CRR hike was anticipated & the hike was announced on mkt on thursday itself but you thought it is discounted as even after hike the mkt went up,but OK got your point. You are very meticulous in your plan & ready with contigency plan B also,so on Friday pre-mkt it seems the contingency plan didnt took into a/c about a Huge Gap down ,OK that is also possible but after seeing that Gap ,didnt it spark you to Sell Double ? Or you thought let the Day end & let me read the movement ,after that in cool mental frame i will work out a way out.
As it seems now you went for the 2nd option.Frankly i fail to understand ,as you can judge the 'Price Zone sentiment area' very well than many others,then why you did not Sell (not even double but plain vanilla holding) at 10.15 on Friday with SL (only to cover later on the day) ,this jobbing ,your & our type of trader always do with holdings whether in cash or derivative.
Dont tell me you where paralysed (which i dont believe) ,jobbing is not booking loss.Only those can take recourse to jobbing ,who are more confident about Price levels (becoz if it boomerangs & hit SL ,then both bird in hand & bush gone).You have also demonstrated your uncanny accuracy of price levels.
I was just trying to read your mind.Still now i firmly believe you will come out of this successfully ,but analysing these kind of situation in my trading life i have seen a riskier selling double or simple jobbing pays.
Plz share your experience in this,i always look forward to enrich myself from good traders rich experience.
 
hi gaurav
no doubt whatsoever..that this is the best thread in traderji
i realy like and appriciate your efforts...
jus try to be a little simple for lots of newbees..so that they will get benifitted...
and YIPPIE YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
dow has gone crazy today +286:)
RECORD for the year,,,,now is that the reversal????;ooks so as any thing below 120 was jus normal...but a gain of 286...
ashish da plss throw your views and the views of other seniors are appriciated too
morning gonna be pleasent
love you all
 

rkkarnani

Well-Known Member
Dear RKkarnani,

Good to hear something positive from you. We all are learners. even though i have 8 years of experience in the markets, there is still a lot to learn.

As i have said before the person who makes money is the king, whatever the technique may be. So no harm done. My thread is only to educate people that there are alternative means which give high returns (you will see for yourself ) and also gives less tension.

All the best, may you make tons of money and hope none of your SL are ever trigerred .

With best wishes,
Gaurav Kumar
My expirience is just 3+years. I had seen the may 17th fall in my initial entry in the market. That made me stickler for a SL and a disciplinarian.
Have seen posts by ashish da here and feel we all shall get enriched by these exchanges.
 
Though the CRR hike was anticipated & the hike was announced on mkt on thursday itself but you thought it is discounted as even after hike the mkt went up,but OK got your point. You are very meticulous in your plan & ready with contigency plan B also,so on Friday pre-mkt it seems the contingency plan didnt took into a/c about a Huge Gap down ,OK that is also possible but after seeing that Gap ,didnt it spark you to Sell Double ? Or you thought let the Day end & let me read the movement ,after that in cool mental frame i will work out a way out.
As it seems now you went for the 2nd option.Frankly i fail to understand ,as you can judge the 'Price Zone sentiment area' very well than many others,then why you did not Sell (not even double but plain vanilla holding) at 10.15 on Friday with SL (only to cover later on the day) ,this jobbing ,your & our type of trader always do with holdings whether in cash or derivative.
Dont tell me you where paralysed (which i dont believe) ,jobbing is not booking loss.Only those can take recourse to jobbing ,who are more confident about Price levels (becoz if it boomerangs & hit SL ,then both bird in hand & bush gone).You have also demonstrated your uncanny accuracy of price levels.
I was just trying to read your mind.Still now i firmly believe you will come out of this successfully ,but analysing these kind of situation in my trading life i have seen a riskier selling double or simple jobbing pays.
Plz share your experience in this,i always look forward to enrich myself from good traders rich experience.
Dear Ashish,

You have got my thinking almost right. Let me correct a few things....

I did not think that the market had discounted the CRR hike. What happened was that the market after the initial fall, came back to 4460 level very quickly. As the market was expecting a 25 basis point CRR hike, the actual hike of 50 basis points was totally unexpected. As a student of economics (I prefer to call myself a student, even though i teach the subject at a Business School), i was very surprised at the quantum of the hike.

To be honest i was not anywhere near the terminal, when the hike was announced. i got the news on phone from one of my friends (i have a network which will give me relevant news when i am not online). The initial shock and the fall to about 4410 levels was on expected lines. But what does one do in such a situation? Instead of booking a loss which would have been 120 points, i waited for the market to recover, which it did. My pattern analysis meant indicated that the market should come back to 4460 odd level before it goes down. So if i had to exit from my long position that should have been the level.

But another thought crossed my mind, that the market was poised for 4700 levels prior to the CRR hike announcement. this meant that the market pattern prior to CRR hike would also hold value and may take the market up to 4550 levels. Of course that could not be certain. So instead of exiting the long position and shorting, i simply hedged at 4460 levels.

Next of course i should have exited my long position before the close when the market hit 4530 on the nifty future. However, i thought that there was a strong possibility of the market hitting 4550 in the morning next day in the first few minutes before falling. As i said earlier that was a mistake in the hindsight.

Once the market opened with a huge gap, had i exited my long position i would have booked a loss of 150 odd points. You would note that the maximum the market lost after that is another 100 points in intra day trades, with the market closing above 4300 levels every day or a 200 points M to M. this is what i had studied overnight. In my view the market seemed unlikely to go below this level. So instead of booking a 150 point loss i prefered to wait. Had it been 50 points instead of 150 odd, i would have booked the loss.

You have correctly understood that i did not want to take a decision in intraday trades and waited for the close. This is because i had analysed that the market is bound to return to 4500 levels this month. In any case, many decisions taken during intraday trades dont work for me ( i prefer saying that instead of saying intraday decisions are often wrong, as day traders would be up in arms against me). I have done my share of day trading and abandoned it.

Finally , i could have exited and shorted, but i was anyway holding a short position (in the form of a hedge) which i covered 100 points down and booked a profit. So effectively, i brought the price of my long position down from 4530 level to 4430. Since then i have managed to get the effective cost of my nifty further down by another 100 points. Now the obvious question would be why this rather than exit totally and short?

The answer is that i still believe we shall see markets at 4700 levels and yes even 5200 levels. So i prefer to be long rather than short. Had i seen a level of 3500 from the patterns i would definitely have reversed positions. As of now you can read it this way that i am effectively sitting on a long position acquired at a net cost of 4330 odd (having booked 200 points profit in the meantime)

Finally, Dow has moved up 286 points today. What if nifty opens up sharply and does not look back? With a long position, i am well poised to take advantage of this situation, where as those who have exited all long positions may have to buy at higher levels.

Finally the final word, it took me 7 years of learning to figure all this..The biggest benefit is that i no longer require to sit 5 1/2 hours on my terminal. I go out without fear. For about 20 days in June i was touring, without my laptop and the only thing i used to do was to call up my broker in the morning and give him instructions. My friend network would just sms me 3-4 times a day to give me an idea of how the market traded..I was in a position to do decide without the use of all the tools like TA (even though i do use TA also as a tool).. what it did mean that in June i was not able to make as much money as i would have had i been online, but still its a far cry from the days when i used to fear leaving the terminal even for 5 minutes.

Hope that answers everything.

With best wishes,

Gaurav Kumar
 
My expirience is just 3+years. I had seen the may 17th fall in my initial entry in the market. That made me stickler for a SL and a disciplinarian.
Have seen posts by ashish da here and feel we all shall get enriched by these exchanges.
Dear RKKarnani,

Discipline need not make one rigid.. that is what i learnt at some cost..
Let me tell you over the years i have been in and out of futures in the first 7 years of investing experience.

There was a stage when despite being able to predict the market well i had stopped trading futures as i had lost a lot ,thanks partly due to the SLs that kept getting trigerred. everytime it would appear as the market would fall to just my SL level and then rise leaving me with a loss even though my analysis was right.

After having lost everything i had earned, i traded only cash segment and made some money. This i did with a longer horizon in mind rather than intraday trades.

Finally, i started applying the same principles to F&O. The only modification is that i had to take into account sharp market falls. Once i studied that nad developed control, there has been no looking back.

It would interest you to know that i am holding ITC futures at a price from the price of 155 for about three months now with a price target of 200+. The only trades i do is to roll over every month. And the returns would be much higher than what i would have made if i had traded it. In effect i should get 150% plus returns in less than a year. I hope that kind of return is good enough for all traders...

With best wishes,
Gaurav Kumar
 
today market nifty trade positive but donot forget to buy put at the end bcos long term trend is still negative,us market bounce is temporary so keep both call and put option till market stablize.
 

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