Zerodha - Number One Discount Broker in India

Zerodha

Well-Known Member
In Zerodha backoffice, I was happy to see the new feature of current profits in 60 days challenge...it helps to keep watch on our profitability. Well done Zerodha...

In Zerodha backoffice the turnover in F& O for deciding if tax audit is required, the following is the basis :

1) In futures contract, the gross addition of positive and negative difference per contract per settlement wise is taken ( meaning netting of profits/loss is done per settlement wise). In my view it is to be done on each contract traded wise...as ICAI guidance note which gives basis for such calculation has nowhere said per settlement wise .In case of multiple trades, opposing trades on FIFO basis to be netted out.

2) In options, ICAI guidance note says the sell side of options should be treated as turnover. But 3rd clause also states that when a opposing trade is entered, only difference of buy/sell price to be considered as turnover ( which gives same treatment as futures contracts. The sell side ( also the purchase side when option contract is purchased) to be taken as turnover when the contract sold ( or purchased) is not squared off by entering into opposite side contract ( meaning allowed to expire worthless at expiry).This appears logical...

The above treatment of options seems more logical and also it will reduce the turnover in options trades as most of the contracts will be squared off by doing opposite trade in that contract.

I am sure Zerodha must have consulted experts in taxation before doing this but another look at these calculations may be necessary.

Smart_trade
Guys,

Firstly this budget the FM has opened up advance rulings for Indian residents as well, the budget notifications will probably happen in October and we will try our best to use this window to get clarification from the IT department itself.

Coming to the turnover bit, I guess there will be always debate on what those guidelines actually mean, but as long as it is being done in spirit and not really done to hurt government coffers, I guess it is completely okay.

Imagine someone has turnover of over 10 crores, but he shows only 20lks using whatever method that suits him and then declares 8% of this as his income, this is something that can cause big trouble. But as long as what you are doing is not really doing that, it should be completely okay.

The guideline says: http://www.caalley.com/gn/30357dtc19988.pdf page 24, 5.1.2 b

The total of positive and negative, or favourable and unfavourable differences shall be taken as turnover;
Premium received on sale of options is to be included in turnover;
In respect of any reverse trades entered, the difference thereon shall also form part of the turnover
x`
Total favourable and unfavourable, is it scripwise or tradewise or should it be FIFO is not really mentioned in these 3 statements. That is what some people have decided it should be used as.

When it comes to point 3 a very important word is: "shall also", very clearly indicating it is not either/or but it is a sum of point 2 and point 3.

This is definitely up for debate, but as I was saying earlier, as long as it is done in the right spirit, shouldn't be any issue. Also since we as Zerodha are giving the turnover calculation on a public forum, we have to do it in the most conservative way possible.
 
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arcus

Well-Known Member
Guys,

Firstly this budget the FM has opened up advance rulings for Indian residents as well, the budget notifications will probably happen in October and we will try our best to use this window to get clarification from the IT department itself.

Coming to the turnover bit, I guess there will be always debate on what those guidelines actually mean, but as long as it is being done in spirit and not really done to hurt government coffers, I guess it is completely okay.

Imagine someone has turnover of over 10 crores, but he shows only 20lks using whatever method that suits him and then declares 8% of this as his income, this is something that can cause big trouble. But as long as what you are doing is not really doing that, it should be completely okay.

The guideline says: http://www.caalley.com/gn/30357dtc19988.pdf page 24, 5.1.2 b

The total of positive and negative, or favourable and unfavourable differences shall be taken as turnover;
Premium received on sale of options is to be included in turnover;
In respect of any reverse trades entered, the difference thereon shall also form part of the turnover
x`
Total favourable and unfavourable, is it scripwise or tradewise or should it be FIFO is not really mentioned in these 3 statements. That is what some people have decided it should be used as.

When it comes to point 3 a very important word is: "shall also", very clearly indicating it is not either/or but it is a sum of point 2 and point 3.

This is definitely up for debate, but as I was saying earlier, as long as it is done in the right spirit, shouldn't be any issue. Also since we as Zerodha are giving the turnover calculation on a public forum, we have to do it in the most conservative way possible.
I think the guy who wrote that has no idea what options are.

Why don't you ask the IT guys directly for clarity regarding this as well.
 

columbus

Well-Known Member

TracerBullet

Well-Known Member
For 'Trader' LTCG for equity is considered as income.
Does this also apply to LTCG from Mutual Funds Equity/Debt? That would be quite unfair ...


Is filing IT needed in this case?

thanks
Filing IT is required if you have income/investing/trading.

As a trader, you have an option to either show your capital gains separately or show it together with your other trading income (MF can be shown under investment).
:O, i thought i didnt need to file this year.

In my case, i have 0 salary, very few test F/O trades - 1 Future, 3 Options along with some Equity/MF redemptions (Long Term). Income would be < 2L

Do i need to file ITR4 or can i use ITR2 ? thanks v much
Use ITR 4, but you don't need an audit as such, show your 3 or 4 F&O trades on ITR 4
Hello,
I forgot that i also redeemed my PF/Pension this year. It is exempted from tax as no of years > 5. If this income is also considered then it would make it more than 2L

My Fno Trades have > 8% profit but i also booked loss in some Long term shares which makes it -ve overall. Equity was meant for investment before but now i need to consider it as part of business income due to FNO trades.

Will this make me liable for audit ? Too much trouble for few trades :(

thanks

Edit - To remove any possible need for audit, i am thinking of putting Equity ( which is in Loss) in CG section this year as it seems to be ambiguous & upto me.
My trading and Investment accounts were different. There is nothing for IT dept to gain if its treated as business income as its loss anyway and long term part wont get carried forward. This article here seems to explain both sides.
phew, please let me know if you see a problem.
 
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kiran_thiru

Well-Known Member
I want to trade using yr mobile app how to do that
go to download section in their website.download app (android/iphone). install in your mobile. enjoy trading.
:):)
 

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