Zerodha Part 2

[soft_trader]

I have a different view.

It is right that Total TO is, total profit + total loss.

IT authorities are concerned with net profit/loss and when you will fill ITR you will fill net profit or net loss. So in above example, it is a loss of 2 lakhs and not profit of 2 lakhs. So you accounts need to get audited.

Its my opinion and I am no tax expert.

Aarey bhai a1b1,

This taxation thing itself is very confusing. No matter how much I try I can't make out any head or tail out of it.

 

[a1b1trader]

What does this mean? If I make loss in F&O trading intraday it can be set off against against any business income, but loss from intraday cash segment can be only set off by profit in intraday cash segment. Is it right?

And when is the last date for filing returns for FY 2012-13 ?

The income/loss from day trading in equities (cash) is income/loss from speculation and speculation loss from day trading can be adjusted with speculation income only and none else.
And income/loss from intraday and positional trading in derivatives (F&O) is income/loss from business and trading loss can be adjusted with any other business income and none else.
The income/loss from equities (cash) if held for less than 1 year is Short term capital gain/loss.
And The income/loss from equities (cash) if held for more than 1 year is Long term capital gain/loss

The last date for filling return is 31.7.13 as of now, where accounts are not to be audited, if accounts need to be audited then it is 31.10.13for FY 2012-13 as of now

 

[lvgandhi]

spread order problem.
Today I opened with previous balance sale of banknifty13mayfut 50nos.
I put a spread order buying 50 nos of banknifty13mayfut and selling 50 nos of banknifty13junfut. It was rejected for margin reasons as shown below in log.
30May2013,11:13:53 -- NFO ORDER: SPREAD ReportType:validation pending Status:validation pending NESTOrderNo:130530000012165 DAY for DS0030 by DS0030 ExchangeOrderNo: NA FIRST LEG OF SPREAD ORDER : BUY Total QTY:50 Open QTY:50 Filled QTY:0 Disc. QTY:50 of BANKNIFTY13MAYFUT at 0.00 ExchangeOrderNo: NA SECOND LEG OF SPREAD ORDER : SELL Total QTY:50 Open QTY:50 Filled QTY:0 Disc. QTY:50 of BANKNIFTY13JUNFUT at 0.00
30May2013,11:13:53 -- NFO ORDER: SPREAD ReportType:failure Status:rejected Rejection Reason: RMS:Margin Exceeds,Required:122755.41, Available:84266.97 for entity account-DS0030 across exchange across segment across product
If I don't have initial position, then margin requirement is OK as per log. But with initial position, I am just covering and buying new. Hence margin should be applicable for new position. Further if it is limit order question of not failure of cover order and hence more margin is OK. I have placed market order. Hence something need to be done for spread order with type market order.

Still waiting for reply to this problem.

 

[a1b1trader]

Aarey bhai a1b1,

This taxation thing itself is very confusing. No matter how much I try I can't make out any head or tail out of it.

And making it more confusing and cumbersome in the name of simplification

 

[Zerodha]

I have a different view.

It is right that Total TO is, total profit + total loss.

IT authorities are concerned with net profit/loss and when you will fill ITR you will fill net profit or net loss. So in above example, it is a loss of 2 lakhs and not profit of 2 lakhs. So you accounts need to get audited.

Its my opinion and I am no tax expert.

arb,

My bad, just Ravi's comment and corrected what was posted earlier..

Yes you are correct, it is a net loss of 2lks and turnover of 6lks .. So Audit would be required...

 

[Zerodha]

Still waiting for reply to this problem.

THis is an issue that the technical team is working on, will update once fixed...

 

[Zerodha]

Aarey bhai a1b1,

This taxation thing itself is very confusing. No matter how much I try I can't make out any head or tail out of it.

Soft,

It is actually a very simple thing, do read both the blogs, you should get a hang of it...

The problem with ITR4(what everyone trading f&o should use) and having it audited by a CA is that it cannot really be an online process...

By audited means that the CA would have signed on all your documents and CA will be afraid to engage in things like these online without knowing the client. He could be in trouble tomorrow for putting up wrong info and signing it..

But as the blog says, IT department is getting stronger and this online thing is going to give them more teeth. It is never too late to be financially disciplined and I have seen a close friend going through a lot of trouble because of mis-filing of his returns..

 

[vikrit]

Soft,

It is actually a very simple thing, do read both the blogs, you should get a hang of it...
.........
.....
But as the blog says, IT department is getting stronger and this online thing is going to give them more teeth. It is never too late to be financially disciplined and I have seen a close friend going through a lot of trouble because of mis-filing of his returns..

Sachin,

can you share after confirming from your CA what is correct way to calculate derivative turnover for IT purpose.

as i was told by CA we calculate net values of per contract for every scrip.
like -
for Crude oil contract CRUDEOIL 19JUL2012, after multiple trades, my net value for this contract is 10000 profit.
and for Copper contract COPPER 29JUN2012, after multiple trades, my net value for this contract is 5000 Loss.

then my turnover is 15000
and my P&L is 5000 Profit.

but after reading some replies and blog comments, i am confuse, so just to confirm please discuss with your CA whether this method is right, if not please share the correct method.

 

[Zerodha]

Sachin,

can you share after confirming from your CA what is correct way to calculate derivative turnover for IT purpose.

as i was told by CA we calculate net values of per contract for every scrip.
like -
for Crude oil contract CRUDEOIL 19JUL2012, after multiple trades, my net value for this contract is 10000 profit.
and for Copper contract COPPER 29JUN2012, after multiple trades, my net value for this contract is 5000 Loss.

then my turnover is 15000
and my P&L is 5000 Profit.

but after reading some replies and blog comments, i am confuse, so just to confirm please discuss with your CA whether this method is right, if not please share the correct method.

I just realized the mistake, had answered the last query on turnover myself, corrected it on the blog..

What you have mentioned is the way we follow..

THe thing is different CA's calculate it differently and there is no clear guideline on how to calculate turnover.. The best option is to always have your books audited no matter what the turnover to avoid confusion...

 

[hhh]

Sachin,
If zerodha can provide the reference of CA, who knows about this defective returns 139/9 and section 44AD in Bangalore it will be helpful.
Spoke to CPC helpline number they are helpless and telling to upload the same return again