Call Writing and Put Writing

[freshtrader]

What i have heard is that TCS had developed the Trading Software for NSE Server and a new addition of Data Mining implementation is going on to raise red flags (Price manipulation / Volume manipulation (Volume manipulation is not yet implemented as i understood, dont know why !! ) and catch the circular trading people (Groups).

However i really don't know what happens after they catch or find out such abnormalities ... in USA they catch them fast and bring them to task , but in India ..not sure if they are really punished ...

Hope to hear more from others too...

Regards

 

[freshtrader]

Can some one let me know if they have access to fast data feeds directly from NSE server ... I want to check some issues if they will help me too ....1 sec tick data is not good enough , is there any one in this forum who is lucky/rich enough to have a direct terminal access from NSE server on VSAT/whatever ?

Any one analyzing the rate change of trades being executed ? Any good algo programmers here ? Financial calculations are more difficult for me to work out thus i am exploring one small issue .. Please feel free and open ....

Regards

 

[DanPickUp]

Dear Dan,

Its ok , emotions are a part of life and i hope it does not become abusive, it is always good to have contradictory views , it is like a challenge and gives birth to a new concept if taken positively ...

I would love to hear from you too and learn from your inputs.. learning and sharing will improve everyone ...even though retailers are larger in numbers against bigger players (they always win because we dont come together to ensure that we together can hold them back or slow them down in their SET traps ... )(Extremely challenging). I guess the algo trading is more about financial calculations of evening out the profits rather than speedy trend analysis. The traps are set by these algos on Financial calculations of status of majority. Sure initially they lose a bit ...just like before hooking the fish the worm (Give away) is tied on the hook ....Thus i wanted to know how people are really analyzing the options, OIs and finding the trap regions without knowing the position of majority ( in which region Short or long). They surely are working all the maths together Futures , Options and Cash segment.

Are people comparing the Cash segment (Delivery based information , (circular trading can be deceptive for analyzing the delivery positions ) and Futures together to do analysis for futures movement ?

Regards

@Freshtrader

You ask very interesting and profound questions. I love that and I clearly can say that you are in no way a beginner in your thoughts :thumb:. I do not have any idea about what your practical expediences are, but I can assure you that with such thoughts and questions you level your way to success in trading. As you found a teacher like Ankurpcl, I am sure you will find your way. I will post when ever I feel and think it makes sense in your thread. Take care / DanPickUp

By the way: I am more trader 3 and 4.

 

[freshtrader]

Dear Dan,

I really don't have any practical experience , but come from an engineering background on real time applications ( that is why some of my questions may be based on those "non valid" issues too, so please forgive me on that) .

I tried my hands on some trade based on the some fundamental analysis (Not technical trend analysis) of the company and made a handsome loss in my first trade. That is when i understood that i need to learn more about Technical analysis to understand this field , i started learning some concepts of technical analysis and tried paper trading and saw confusing results and got a more confused . I am still learning and need all the support and wise experts from old time experienced experts (even if they have lost). No knowledge is a waste ....Even a man who has lost can tell you what not to do..Moreover all over the world many people came out with new strategies (lagging/leading indicators) for success and then as soon as more knew about it those stated to fail ..thus there is something more to all this ...Winners have to be < that losers in number....The zero sum game winner ...

This is a fascinatingly dangerous field where one needs to do some kind of mind reading (I am sure FIIs don't do mind reading ) of experts , new traders, blind, and bluff traders , all together making a vast matter of varied grey cells..and strange combination of the situation of any Index / Script futures values...and yet the FIIs turn out to be winners. I know i cant beat them in their game ..but trying to explore how can i piggy bag ON THEM if they ever allow ...

Regards

 

[DanPickUp]

They allow, but you will be watched at the moment you come in with big volumes. If so, you are under the radar from the biggies and there you are watched 24 hours a day. As retailer better stay under there radar with only a few lots and you will be accepted.

Any most successful concept published any where for free will stop working the way it did before. So do not expect miracles in any trading forum. Ankurpcl has pointed already in that direction.

About your question in the other thread regarding Butterfly's: Simple rule: Use standard deviation 1 or 1.5 or 2 on call and on the put side to define your legs when implementing it at once. Doing it by leg in, you can use other measures like OI and TA. When you do leg in, do broken wing butterfly's in the direction market moves. Take care / DanPickUp

 

[hauler]

Here is the sample of the way they show the breakup for FIIs View attachment 19476

Freshtrader,
I have an idea of how these positions are done. At least finding the net position of FII's in nifty long.

My idea was to start with daily details of FII's positions from NSE website and then keep updating the data daily in your excel workbook. while you will start with a wrong data in the beginning, after a month you will have a close to perfect data when the contracts have been rolled over.
I never started on it as there are already sites which calculate this data. But in my understanding that should be the methodology.

 

[hauler]

Dear Dan,

I really don't have any practical experience , but come from an engineering background on real time applications ( that is why some of my questions may be based on those "non valid" issues too, so please forgive me on that) .

I tried my hands on some trade based on the some fundamental analysis (Not technical trend analysis) of the company and made a handsome loss in my first trade. That is when i understood that i need to learn more about Technical analysis to understand this field , i started learning some concepts of technical analysis and tried paper trading and saw confusing results and got a more confused . I am still learning and need all the support and wise experts from old time experienced experts (even if they have lost). No knowledge is a waste ....Even a man who has lost can tell you what not to do..Moreover all over the world many people came out with new strategies (lagging/leading indicators) for success and then as soon as more knew about it those stated to fail ..thus there is something more to all this ...Winners have to be < that losers in number....The zero sum game winner ...

This is a fascinatingly dangerous field where one needs to do some kind of mind reading (I am sure FIIs don't do mind reading ) of experts , new traders, blind, and bluff traders , all together making a vast matter of varied grey cells..and strange combination of the situation of any Index / Script futures values...and yet the FIIs turn out to be winners. I know i cant beat them in their game ..but trying to explore how can i piggy bag ON THEM if they ever allow ...

Regards

Btw,
Theory of zerosum applies only to trading.
If you have investment in markets that is never a zerosum game as the market capitalization keep growing on and till the time market comes back to from where it started. Even then dividends that you got by your investments need not be paid back to the markets.
Also, you might be focusing too much on the various entities and actors involved in the markets. As a theorist it might be good to know about all of these, but in a practical trading environment many will vouch that focusing on psychological aspects or money management part keeps the trader in black. you just need few tools viz a chart and your calculator.

 

[freshtrader]

They allow, but you will be watched at the moment you come in with big volumes. If so, you are under the radar from the biggies and there you are watched 24 hours a day. As retailer better stay under there radar with only a few lots and you will be accepted.

Dear Dan , if one breaks up the volume in small pieces, does a fast buy sell averaging them with small differences in prices, do you still feel they can track that ? If yes then this is high speed tracking of traders IDs or some other information that links up to a single person ... what is that they track about the buyer or seller ? Do you know that ?

I will come back to you to learn about butterfly ....

Regards

 

[DanPickUp]

Dear Dan , if one breaks up the volume in small pieces, does a fast buy sell averaging them with small differences in prices, do you still feel they can track that ? If yes then this is high speed tracking of traders IDs or some other information that links up to a single person ... what is that they track about the buyer or seller ? Do you know that ?

I will come back to you to learn about butterfly ....

Regards

How it is done, I do not know, but I know that big volume traders are watched, regardless if they sell or buy. This at least it is in any Exchange in the USA. We can talk more tomorrow, as market now is open. Take care / DanPickUp

 

[freshtrader]

How it is done, I do not know, but I know that big volume traders are watched, regardless if they sell or buy. This at least it is in any Exchange in the USA. We can talk more tomorrow, as market now is open. Take care / DanPickUp

Dear Dan ,

Wish you all the best in your trade ... I shall wait for your inputs when ever you have time ...

• 
  Will you be my Guru ? It may take me time to come up to your speed ...

• 
  Big Volumes have baffled me ..

• 
  - May be, One can buy/sell the entire (Max as per their requirement) market depth and for that one needs to have the complete details of the entire market depth ..or place Huge buy/sell order on Market price with repeated attempts on high speed execution...

• 
  -What is the market depth a retail traders usually get ..Max 5-10 ? Then does it mean that FIIs have access to the entire market depth ? Or is this a random volume based buy/sell irrespective of the values in the existing market depth ... Not sure what is the active level that NSE server allows as market depth (Allows as listed pending orders )

• 
  - I assume ..one way to generate assured High Volume is , if one buys and sells at the same time from different trading account (linked on high speed network) which enables them to be in in long and short position at the same time and manipulate the direction later based on the trapped small fishes ?? Am i making any sense here ? Could this the one way they operate? If so won't this be considered as manipulated trade call ?

Thanks for your participation ...

Eager to learn from you ALL more, so that i can be a good successful trader :! ....

Regards