General Trading Chat

[Smart_trade]

Don't micromanage ERL. For all the cases ERL from 1 is safer.bet.Dont try to figure out ERL in visual sideway...the charts show lower VPH and the moment mpl is broken we go sort...so very good trades on pivots....don't try to fit ERL in every pivot.

We have to use ERLs very carefully...else these will be trading losses.

ST

 

[vivektrader]

Don't micromanage ERL. For all the cases ERL from 1 is safer.bet.Dont try to figure out ERL in visual sideway...the charts show lower VPH and the moment mpl is broken we go sort...so very good trades on pivots....don't try to fit ERL in every pivot.

We have to use ERLs very carefully...else these will be trading losses.

ST

Sir can we trade IDF reasonably successfully even without using erl. I mean we may miss some (small move) counter trades or enter a bit late, but still be successful using our pivot method only.
Thanks

 

[wisp]

Don't micromanage ERL. For all the cases ERL from 1 is safer.bet.Dont try to figure out ERL in visual sideway...the charts show lower VPH and the moment mpl is broken we go sort...so very good trades on pivots....don't try to fit ERL in every pivot.

We have to use ERLs very carefully...else these will be trading losses.

ST

Da,
Thanks a lot. In picture 1 we have higher VPH but of lower degree, in Picture 2 we have higher degree VPH taken out to the up and failure. On which pivot should we reenter short Da?

 

[pratapvb]

Price Action perspective using VWAP+SD and TF AMAs

http://www.traderji.com/advanced-tr...action-perspective-using-vwap-sd-tf-amas.html

 

[wisp]

ST Da,

When we are in Visual Down trend, will you take pivot above visual ERL long as in this case?

 

[TracerBullet]

Hello st da, some question on VP method

1) When multiple VPL gets broken, which one should be used as vERL? Can we take the latest one?

Pic 1 is a lower degree uptrend, so vERL1 should probably be used
In pic 2, Both vERL1 and vERL3 are from previous trends, maybe neither can be used and we wait for new VPL break.
Pic 3 - vERL1 or vERL7 - 1 is from Higher degree downtrend and 7 is latest VPL of new downtrend

(All turning points are VP below)

Don't micromanage ERL. For all the cases ERL from 1 is safer.bet.Dont try to figure out ERL in visual sideway...the charts show lower VPH and the moment mpl is broken we go sort...so very good trades on pivots....don't try to fit ERL in every pivot.

We have to use ERLs very carefully...else these will be trading losses.

ST

st da, To clarify, these charts are assuming turning points as VP. In these cases, i want to understand what visual ERL is when price breaks visual pivots 1/3/7.

Then i tried to show same using minor pivots below

Pic 1 - Is this correct - We have probable trend change, but neither VPL1/2 can be considered as vERL and we wait for VPs of new trend

Pic 2

In this case, break of VPL5 after lower VPH6 makes 5 as vERL. VPL1 and VPL3 are not relevant. Break of VPL1 which was VPL before lower degree uptrend started does not make new vERL

Edit - typos

Question is whether these VPLs of previous trend are relevant for new probable downtrend

 

[vivektrader]

st da, To clarify, these charts are assuming turning points as VP. In these cases, i want to understand what visual ERL is when price visual pivots 1/3/7.

Then i tried to show same using minor pivots below



Question is whether these VPLs of previous trend are relevant for new probable downtrend

Quoting from subhadeep's postHow to use ERL in Trading:


When we don’t look at the ERL?

1. The Pivot has to be from the same Trend for ERL
Assume we are in a downtrend, our SAR is at the latest Pivot High. Now, if the latest PH is broken we reverse our position to Long. That PH cannot be considered now for ERL in case of our new uptrend as it is from a Previous Trend. ERLs are early reversal signals and should be based on the price action in the current trend, not the previous one. Hence, in the new uptrend, wait for the price to form a new higher PL and then let it take out the previous Visual Pivot High at a visual distance for it to be considered as an ERL.

2. Ignore the ERL in Sideways Market

There may be many ERLs formed within the Sideways but we ignore them altogether. The ERL play will resume once the Sideways is taken out and Up / Down trend resumes.

The Visual Distance is just a bar closing over a potential ERL that is obvious Visually.............There is no percentage or mathematical calculation to it........Visually,a breakout bar over a potential ERL and a visual close outside of this potential line activates it.


The concept of ERL::

 

[vivektrader]

I find it easier to follow AlBrooks concept of trend reversal than ERL.
He states that before a trend changes, it is preceded by at least a breach of major trendline followed by a retest of the extreme.
Consider we are in a sustained downtrend, then we see a major trend line break to the upside (minor upmove), and then a retest of the low, followed by a 'tradeable' uptrend.So in effect its never a good idea to be a part of a limited uptrend that occurs before the retest.
I fail to understand why we can't suceed without ERL?

 

[TracerBullet]

Quoting from subhadeep's postHow to use ERL in Trading:


When we don’t look at the ERL?

1. The Pivot has to be from the same Trend for ERL
Assume we are in a downtrend, our SAR is at the latest Pivot High. Now, if the latest PH is broken we reverse our position to Long. That PH cannot be considered now for ERL in case of our new uptrend as it is from a Previous Trend. ERLs are early reversal signals and should be based on the price action in the current trend, not the previous one. Hence, in the new uptrend, wait for the price to form a new higher PL and then let it take out the previous Visual Pivot High at a visual distance for it to be considered as an ERL.

From this, it is clear that its not relevant (atleast for minor trends ).
Yet, i am still unclear on our bias based on visual trends ( sry)

To put another way, Pics below ( shows visual pivots only) we have a lower degree visual trend up. We have an uptrend within a larger down trend as previous visual ERL has not yet been broken by uptrend. When this uptrend turns, in this case we can short when lower degree uptrend reverses using its vERL or on break on VPL. Now if price starts reversing again after breaking VPL1, what is our bias above these old VPLs ( esp VPL1 as its low of Downtrend before CPB up ).

I find it easier to follow AlBrooks concept of trend reversal than ERL.
He states that before a trend changes, it is preceded by at least a breach of major trendline followed by a retest of the extreme.
Consider we are in a sustained downtrend, then we see a major trend line break to the upside (minor upmove), and then a retest of the low, followed by a 'tradeable' uptrend.So in effect its never a good idea to be a part of a limited uptrend that occurs before the retest.
I fail to understand why we can't suceed without ERL?

Its not a question of sucess, i just want to get clarity on the bias.
Subhadip gave easier way of MA and also deliberately didnt yet write on ERL reversal to keep it simple - you can trade without it and mix with other methods.

 

[vivektrader]

From this, it is clear that its not relevant (atleast for minor trends ).
Yet, i am still unclear on our bias based on visual trends ( sry)

To put another way, Pics below ( shows visual pivots only) we have a lower degree minor trend up. We have an uptrend within a larger down trend as previous visual ERL has not yet been broken by uptrend. When this uptrend turns, in this case we can short when lower degree uptrend reverses using its vERL or on break on VPL. Now if price starts reversing again after breaking VPL1, what is our bias above these old VPLs

Its not a question of sucess, i just want to get clarity on the bias.
Subhadip gave easier way of MA and also deliberately didnt yet write on ERL reversal to keep it simple - you can trade without it and mix with other methods if its clear.

Yes,my friend, my point is also this clarity, if this is too subjective, I have problem following it in live market. Being a price action trader I would want to be least subjective so that its easier to take decisions when trading live.