Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[samthomas]

Replying to Czar's question...
I was not in a position to read this thread during market hours yesterday, so i continued to hold short position as the reversal was not very obvious to me, and today when i got a lower PH , i reversed to longs at 4020 + 15. just making the point that even if we make a mistake but we consistently try to be in sync with the flow , eventually we will be trading in the right direction.
Regards
Sam

 

[Satyen]

So frankly tell me how many of you guys, yesterday when saint according to 30 mins said reverse positions, thought: "The guy's crazy..., man what the heck, is he sure, the whole world markets are falling apart..."

Thanks Czar .... i did not post due to it may create confusion


I have deviated from Saint and did the following ....and prepared if today GAP up then will apply 5 min rule otherwise ok... i was waiting to high to break in my chart ( Though did not used Filter indiscplined me ) it was showing 4083 so once crossed then gone long

Yes i know i may be doing seriously wrong going against my teacher but i was not convinced at that time to use 30 min pivot....

so requesting Saint to please teach us when to use 30 min pivot when not
and member we should discus about this if not in this thread then in other thread " Question of 60 min flow ......."

( This chart prepared yesterday but did not post )


Regards
Satya

 

[man4urheart]

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[rkkarnani]

Hello Rakesh
I am new to this system and do not have much wisdom as Saint has but still I will try to answer your question.
What I understood from your post is, your concern is that why do we add position even though it increases the risk.
you are actually looking at the current trade but The system is not about a single trade , its a cycle and the strength lies in Adding position. How is it , lets take an example from our previous trade.
Suppose you trade without adding position and I trade as per the system.
So in last trade I would have made 257*4=1028 points and you would have made 257 points.
Now suppose in the current trade imagine if Our SL would have Hit at 3942 yesterday. You and I both would have lost 4062-3942= 120 points. But I earned 1028 points in last trade and you earned 257. So cumulative I am up by 908 points and you by 137 points. Another such trade will take out all the profit you made in First trade.
So adding positions in the flow not only help us gain maximum from flow but also provide us a hedge if something adverse happens in coming trades.

This is what I understand , However I may be wrong.
I am not denying that adding position will always be fruitful, it can definitely harm some trades, but as I said earlier its not about a single trade.

Hi, I think a bit differently :

These were the trades done in Sep till yesterday as Posted by Saint :
COMPLETED TRADES IN NF IN SEPTEMBER

TRADE 1(LONG):
INITIAL POSITION:4354
ADD 1:4381
ADD 2:4383

EXIT=4425.............+156 pts.

TRADE 2 (SHORT):
INITIAL POSN: 4425
ADD1 :4324
ADD2 : 4280
ADD3 : 4246

AVG:4319
EXIT: 4062...........257 x 4 =+1028pts

If two persons are risking the same capital :
One person say A adds to his initial position gradually till he has 4 positions open and the other say B enters 4 positions at a go!!!
Its all about handling your risk.

"A" is safe and secure if the position does not move in his direction and if SL is hit he looses on a single position only.
"B" is adventurous and takes the maximum risk at the first signal and enters into 4 positions at a go... if the SL is hit he looses 4 times what "A" looses!! In case of a Gap "A" has an advantage too of adding at lower (in case of Long) levels too!!!

It is unusual that an ADD would increase the risk, it happens only when there is a Gap opening against our trade pushing back our SL or if at any time our SL is not hit due to room given and we have to revise the SL adversely, in no other case shall the risk increase!!!

The "B" risks more and he gains more too :
In the first trade of Long at 4354 Reverse at 4425 = 71X4= 284
In the 2nd trade of Short at 4425 Reverse at 4062 = 363X4=1452

But consider a hypothetical scenario :

Yesterday we went long and today mkt opened gap down, had the SL been triggered, "B" wud loose four times of what "A" would loose!!! "A" had another advantage of being able to add at lower levels, now at the end of trade we shall know who fared better but one thing is clear "A" had lesser stress watching the Intl market yesterday night and Asian Market today morning compared to what "B" might have gone through!!!!

Just my view!!!!

 

[praveen taneja]

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SIR I TAKE CUE FROM HERE BUT APPLY IN OPTIONS SO U CAN COUNT ME 50%...

 

[vpsarathy]

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charankpm (Yesterday)
gvnarendra (14th September 2008)
jitu123 (Yesterday)
kapil123 (Yesterday)
KomaL2099 (14th September 2008)
lvgandhi (14th September 2008)
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rakamath (14th September 2008)
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rkripal (Yesterday)
sandeep721 (14th September 2008)
satya_pinku2003 (Yesterday)
shanmugamkr (14th September 2008)
Smart_trade (14th September 2008)
tanewbie (14th September 2008)
teja8035 (14th September 2008)
trader27 (14th September 2008)
vats (Yesterday)
venkatpp (Yesterday)
vpsarathy (14th September 2008)
yashodhan (14th September 2008)
---------------------------------------

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It is not right to call me a part of the team when I am a fence sitter trading on paper. Thanks for your large hearted inclusion
vps

 

[man4urheart]

It is not right to call me a part of the team when I am a fence sitter trading on paper. Thanks for your large hearted inclusion
vps

The magic of this thread is first new team members join with paper trading and then end up actually trading!

So we already know Lion has tasted the blood!

 

[Smart_trade]

Our friend NIFTYCHANCE has made a pin up board and I an reproducing it as under :

http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flowwisdomfi51dm2.png

http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flowtradingrulesgr21ml5.png

There was a request to post the rules in summerised form,people who joined this thread late will find it useful.

The entire work is that of NIFTYCHANCE,I had saved it as I liked the idea and hence give your "Thank yous" to NIFTYCHANCE !!!

Best Wishes,Trade Well !!!


Smart_trade

 

[Prabhjeet]

the reason to point this is if saint was not there would you have taken this call ? so the need for independent thinking is becoming a must, Saint is not going to guide forever (though I wish he will) but he is making too much money & soon is going to be bored of all the demands & questions

Most of the people are saying that they would have taken the long position like Saint did yesterday but real test comes when we have to take this decision ourselves & what would be our reaction if this trade goes against us, that too when Saint is not there to guide.

Something to think about

 

[Prabhjeet]

Hi, I think a bit differently :

These were the trades done in Sep till yesterday as Posted by Saint :
COMPLETED TRADES IN NF IN SEPTEMBER

TRADE 1(LONG):
INITIAL POSITION:4354
ADD 1:4381
ADD 2:4383

EXIT=4425.............+156 pts.

TRADE 2 (SHORT):
INITIAL POSN: 4425
ADD1 :4324
ADD2 : 4280
ADD3 : 4246

AVG:4319
EXIT: 4062...........257 x 4 =+1028pts

If two persons are risking the same capital :
One person say A adds to his initial position gradually till he has 4 positions open and the other say B enters 4 positions at a go!!!
Its all about handling your risk.

"A" is safe and secure if the position does not move in his direction and if SL is hit he looses on a single position only.
"B" is adventurous and takes the maximum risk at the first signal and enters into 4 positions at a go... if the SL is hit he looses 4 times what "A" looses!! In case of a Gap "A" has an advantage too of adding at lower (in case of Long) levels too!!!

It is unusual that an ADD would increase the risk, it happens only when there is a Gap opening against our trade pushing back our SL or if at any time our SL is not hit due to room given and we have to revise the SL adversely, in no other case shall the risk increase!!!

The "B" risks more and he gains more too :
In the first trade of Long at 4354 Reverse at 4425 = 71X4= 284
In the 2nd trade of Short at 4425 Reverse at 4062 = 363X4=1452

But consider a hypothetical scenario :

Yesterday we went long and today mkt opened gap down, had the SL been triggered, "B" wud loose four times of what "A" would loose!!! "A" had another advantage of being able to add at lower levels, now at the end of trade we shall know who fared better but one thing is clear "A" had lesser stress watching the Intl market yesterday night and Asian Market today morning compared to what "B" might have gone through!!!!

Just my view!!!!

Hmm.. very intresting thought RK, but I am sure after some years 'A' will think " why the hell did I waste my years not trading like 'B' , I am not earning even 1/4th of what B is earning with the same system"

I dont agree with stress point either RK, now that have backtested and tested the system real time I think whatever the little setbacks that we get while adding our positions will be covered with huge gains when we have a move in our favour.

So guys please believe in the system and ADDS are the real lifeline of system dont ignore them

Remember this saying by Saint and the losses will never hurt you " We are giving away pennies to make pounds"