Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[Saint]

Dear Saint as you Said in the thread you will outline some rules fo Pure and agrresve .... here are my veiws why i went long on wednesday may made a huge mistake but posting only due to correct my mistakes ............

Generally i use 60 min pivots to trade on wednesday when price made new lows 3370 - 3352 i moved my stop to high of the day .... then candle one moves up and crossed the days high but could not cross high + filter then we have a down bar on 60 cnadle 2 now in my veiw reversal point near high getting importance ..... but could not get clear pivot to reverse then switched to 30 min got a pivot and when crossed then reverse .... while crossing 30 min pivot price has already moved up nearly 182 points so conviced to reverse in 60 min trade

Again now doubt arising do we consider 5 bar rule to define a pivot .... or any thing visualy obvious pivot to reverse ??

Now people like me there who dont use 30 min pivot very often but in some cases llike this one we tend to use 30 min pivot to get clear picture ......
hope you will consider our case while outlining the rules in this week end

Waiting yours and others veiw to correct rules .......




Regards
Satya

Satya,

Judging from the way you post your charts,you are a clear out and out Pure Flow Trader......so don't bother looking at the 30min charts.What you have in the 60min charts is lower pivot highs and lows.On Wednesday,your mistake was to bring the stops down to the high of the day........Your stops remain at 3671.

You are now looking to bring your stops down......then at 1pm came that bullish candle followed by a bearish candle.Aggressive guys are not wrong in going long at that point.But your position should have been the same.Stops at 3671.Unless you get another bearish candle after tha 2pm candle......then you get to bring your stops down to the high of the 1pm candle.

Your reversal long should have been on 13th Oct.

Do not forget that your job is to only bring down your stops to Visually Obvious Pivots.........please don't get dragged into all other terminologies......and then allow the stops to auto-reverse you into longs.

Saint

 

[Saint]

Some Musings on Pivots

How do we define a pivot?

One way to describe a pivot is a swing high is a pivot high and swing low is pivot low. But then subjectivity creeps in here. Should we consider the major swing or even minor swings? Minot ..how minor? Maybe these things make different people see different pivots.

I have been toying with the idea of an afl to assist the 60 min flow traders. I faced the same questions when I attempted coding the afl.

One way to code was to use the zig zag functions. Then the big protest It looks forward flashed in front of me. In the flow system we are trading the break of the pivots not pivots. Hence that should not really pose a problem. But then what percentage of change I use ( the same question ..how minor the pivot should be?). A percentage change used for nifty cannot be obviously used for an individual stock.

Another method of finding the pivot could be use the five finger formula. the middle finger being the pivot. Seemed to work fine. I was happy.. Then I was reading the thread and find many finding more pivots. Again confused the five finger seemed to working ok again to the design board ..mmm

Then thought of a three finger formula, the index finger, middle finger and the ring finger oops there seems to be pivots everywhere.. the three finger formula does seem to give earlier reversal. Seems nice then did some study with historical data . Too many whipsaws. IMHO the flow method by itself should give plenty of whipsaws in a side ways market luckily we are in trending market .. of course a bearish trend
But the three finger method gave too many whipsaws for comfort.. the five finger formula seems to work better now I am back to my design board

Ah,my friend......an attempt to make Art into Science,yet again......even without further progress of whatever it is that you are designing,let me tell you the outcome right here and now.

"Pivots and the Flow Methods do not work......everything is so vague.....too subjective.......may pull it off in trending markets,not sideways markets....too many whipsaws.......In a nutshell,this does not work."

You,more than anyone here in this forum,know how I see things.......this thread is still Art,not Science.It is still about living in the Now,and going with the Eye,and being in the Flow......something I doubt that any afl can capture.

But try if you must,but I guess that the conclusions will be as above........ Having said that, please do not forget that this methodology is being traded to great profits not just by me,but many others.

If this afl can beat our entries and exits and keep us from some unnecessary trades,I would be thrilled........although I sincerely doubt it.

Saint

 

[Saint]

As Saint says "GO With The Eye". Visually obvious pivots will stand out. We have time here in this system of " 60 min ---" to let a pivot develop as SARs are far away. We tend to see the the chart too much and micro-manage, maybe we have too much time at hand. Suggest trade two or three diff futures in 60- mins or try one or two positions on the mini-flow. This will keep the mind occupied and we will develop an eye for pivots and also stop micro-managing.
Bee

After digging through many posts of last 2 days,found this one from Beethoven.........phew,there is hope after all.

Thank you,my friend......Great stuff!

Saint

 

[psj]

Saint,

I am still Long in NF. But, still could not understand why Yesterday's
3620 - 15 was not considered as SAR.

PSJ

 

[Satyen]

No Satya...I was not alluding to using the 30 min tf to find pivots here. There is more to Aggressive than the 30mins...

As Smart_Trade rightly said a few posts ago....each man to himself..whatever suits our personalities.

Sec 5 pyr........You are correct abt what you said in your last post, but do keep posting your views/methods. Whatever comes out from these discussions would be of great value to all here.

Rakesh

yes Rakesh correctly Said what ever suit our personality
Hope Saint will finalise rules int the mean time even did a mistake on 8th october

Regards
Satya

 

[Satyen]

Satya,

Judging from the way you post your charts,you are a clear out and out Pure Flow Trader......so don't bother looking at the 30min charts.What you have in the 60min charts is lower pivot highs and lows.On Wednesday,your mistake was to bring the stops down to the high of the day........Your stops remain at 3671.

You are now looking to bring your stops down......then at 1pm came that bullish candle followed by a bearish candle.Aggressive guys are not wrong in going long at that point.But your position should have been the same.Stops at 3671.Unless you get another bearish candle after tha 2pm candle......then you get to bring your stops down to the high of the 1pm candle.

Your reversal long should have been on 13th Oct.

Do not forget that your job is to only bring down your stops to Visually Obvious Pivots.........please don't get dragged into all other terminologies......and then allow the stops to auto-reverse you into longs.

Saint

Thank you dear Saint .....will go back and at least look for 6 months charts


Regards
Satya

 

[Satyen]

real confusion here......all against saint sir's long position...........

many are standing short ......

as far as i consider.....

......................................
............................

it will end all confusions surely...........

Hi neeraj no body against any body here ... but people over here are honest and great people they post what ever they think/analyse ..... so it may be contradicting but in the process there will be very usefull thing come out

And yes Every one Waiting our Master Saints compilation

Regards
Satya

 

[Satyen]

Posting todays 60 min NF chart

Also posting todays 30 min NF chart as under :

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/2342/nf30minll5.jpg

From the posts I read there was a lot of debate on whether a low at 3620=40(11=00 bar low ) was a PL or not.

As Saint says,go with your eyes,and for me,it certainly was a PL ,fairly clear on 60 and if not clear,then if you see 30 it is a crystal clear PL for me.So I reversed my position from long to short at 3620-15=3605.

Dont want to get into a debate on this issue,everyone should trade what he/she sees on his/her charts.

Best Wishes,Trade Well...

Smart_trade

Hi Smart_Trade in my veiw the 3rd bar should at least rally towards high then it will become a pivot low just my veiw


Regards
Satya

 

[ThE HaMmEr]

Hi neeraj no body against any body here ... but people over here are honest and great people they post what ever they think/analyse ..... so it may be contradicting but in the process there will be very usefull thing come out

And yes Every one Waiting our Master Saints compilation

Regards
Satya

i understand.....and that is a great thing....coz in discussions like these only we learn.......

what i meant was that saint sir is market mover...... ......

so some playin in opp direction....

regards

neeraj

 

[SamFisher]

Saint,

I am still Long in NF. But, still could not understand why Yesterday's
3620 - 15 was not considered as SAR.

PSJ

psj, I know your question is towords Saint
But let me try my understanding of pivot, if i am not correct, Saint please correct us.

Current Chart

Modified Chart