Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[KomaL2099]

In the hindsight I can see all the solutions to the two unsucessful trades that we took on both the days.

As far as I can see the problem has arisen both times due to placement of stops at improper place.

Yesterday the problem was that we already had hit a high of 3178 but our pivot stoploss was around 2941, almost 240 pts. i.e 8% away, which proved to be too much to leave , had we used 2 bar our stops would have been around 3076 i.e 3% away, looks adequate right?

Today we did opposite to what we did yesterday, we actually left no room for movement for Nifty. Nifty was hovering around 2920- 2931 and we moved our stoploss to 2971 i.e less than 2 % room. Now what does this tell us about our foolishness. We were not whipsawed in stocks because we had left 5-6 % room for our stops hence we were saved the blushes.

I may not be exactly right on analysis of both the days but after some soul searching looks like the room that we give to our stops is very important. I would like seniors to give a thought on this view.

In my mind there are already some cobwebs getting cleared, we should enough room for stock to breathe but not too much of room that we are not able to catch the trend- reversal

Guys we need to think, its high time we know what kind of stoplosses we put and not follow the pivots which are not the ones actually

yes PJ you are right ... its high time now ..last three days have been so difficult ... look at the irony, there are three aspect of Saint system
Gap,2 Bar & pivot. And in last three days it seems market deliberately tested wheteher we throughly understand all those three aspects or not ... and the result is in front of us ... test1 we forgot about the gap rule .. test2 2 bar rule didnt even strike .. test3 todays reversal to long has been put to doubt ...
time to revive ......

 

[rkkarnani]

yes PJ you are right ... its high time now ..last three days have been so difficult ... look at the irony, there are three aspect of Saint system
Gap,2 Bar & pivot. And in last three days it seems market deliberately tested wheteher we throughly understand all those three aspects or not ... and the result is in front of us ... test1 we forgot about the gap rule .. test2 2 bar rule didnt even strike .. test3 todays reversal to long has been put to doubt ...
time to revive ......

Did you mean "Time to revise" the lessons and pass the exam next time round!!!
Yes your observation is correct , we had the 2 bar rule used maybe for the first time yesterday.

 

[rkkarnani]

In the hindsight I can see all the solutions to the two unsucessful trades that we took on both the days.

As far as I can see the problem has arisen both times due to placement of stops at improper place.

Yesterday the problem was that we already had hit a high of 3178 but our pivot stoploss was around 2941, almost 240 pts. i.e 8% away, which proved to be too much to leave , had we used 2 bar our stops would have been around 3076 i.e 3% away, looks adequate right?

Today we did opposite to what we did yesterday, we actually left no room for movement for Nifty. Nifty was hovering around 2920- 2931 and we moved our stoploss to 2971 i.e less than 2 % room. Now what does this tell us about our foolishness. We were not whipsawed in stocks because we had left 5-6 % room for our stops hence we were saved the blushes.

I may not be exactly right on analysis of both the days but after some soul searching looks like the room that we give to our stops is very important. I would like seniors to give a thought on this view.

In my mind there are already some cobwebs getting cleared, we should enough room for stock to breathe but not too much of room that we are not able to catch the trend- reversal

Guys we need to think, its high time we know what kind of stoplosses we put and not follow the pivots which are not the ones actually

Prabhjeet, I do not agree on revising upward the 'room' size we give!! Today high of the 11 AM bar we went long above was 2958 and the days high was 2988, a 30 point difference.
We do not look for percentage while deciding SAR, its Pivots and Pivots and Pivots!! Only when there are no pivots we look for alternatives like 2 bar rule etc.
For arguments sake let us assume that we increase our room to 30 points from 15 points, our long would not be triggered but imagine giving away 15 +15 points in every trade , and if we have 5 trades a month we loose 150 points extra in filters alone. In comparision it is better to get a few extra reversals than increasing the Filter size.
Would like to receive more from you about the room size and some reasons for your thinking so, mayhbe I am missing out something.

I sincerely feel it is more to do with getting 2 false trades consecutively that has shaken a number of us.

The system is absolutely fine, the room size is adequate all we need is a bit more patience...end of the month if we are Net in positive we should rejoice. Not many systems can claim a positive returns month after month in such market.
Hats off to you Saint.
Regards
-R K Karnani

 

[bandlab2]

i am a slow learner, having some dificulty understaning the basics, can someone tell me if the middle bar is a pivot high ? in my understaning no, because midle bar high is not higher than left bar although its close is higher than left bar close

thanks

 

[Smart_trade]

I dont think there was any mistake in reversing above a PH at 11:00 bar today. We were getting this reversal after 8 consecutive down bars on 60 and the two bar rule reversal level was very near (2954 +20 ,3:00 bar on 11-11-08).

This reversal did not work,but that is a different issue .This long position was subsequently reversed and we had a good downmove. Today's whipsaw one has to take in his stride and consider it as a perfectly right trade . Let us not try to tweak the system to avoid each and every whipsaw. It cannot be done !!! So cheer up and keep trading the system and we will come out as winners in November trades.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

 

[SamFisher]

13th November 2008 Gurunanak Jayanti - Markets Closed​

 

[ANBE SHIVAM]

13th November 2008 Gurunanak Jayanti - Markets Closed​

Thanksji ,i was out of station for last 3 days.till now i was sitting before computer confused why my online trading is not working.

 

[vinst]

i am a slow learner, having some dificulty understaning the basics, can someone tell me if the middle bar is a pivot high ? in my understaning no, because midle bar high is not higher than left bar although its close is higher than left bar close

thanks

No, there is no pivot high or low in the picture u attached. Pivot high or low, as we are using here, is primarily determined by using bar high or bar low, not with the close.

vin

 

[vinst]

In the hindsight I can see all the solutions to the two unsucessful trades that we took on both the days.

As far as I can see the problem has arisen both times due to placement of stops at improper place.

Yesterday the problem was that we already had hit a high of 3178 but our pivot stoploss was around 2941, almost 240 pts. i.e 8% away, which proved to be too much to leave , had we used 2 bar our stops would have been around 3076 i.e 3% away, looks adequate right?

Today we did opposite to what we did yesterday, we actually left no room for movement for Nifty. Nifty was hovering around 2920- 2931 and we moved our stoploss to 2971 i.e less than 2 % room. Now what does this tell us about our foolishness. We were not whipsawed in stocks because we had left 5-6 % room for our stops hence we were saved the blushes.

I may not be exactly right on analysis of both the days but after some soul searching looks like the room that we give to our stops is very important. I would like seniors to give a thought on this view.

In my mind there are already some cobwebs getting cleared, we should enough room for stock to breathe but not too much of room that we are not able to catch the trend- reversal

Guys we need to think, its high time we know what kind of stoplosses we put and not follow the pivots which are not the ones actually

Prabhjeet,

I am not a senior but would nevertheless reply to this ! I fully agree to wrong stop placement which i did during the rising and falling part of V on NF. Though looking at % 'distance' of SL to CMP may serve as a nudge to shift SL option (Pivot, non-visual pivot, 2 bar), SL itself should not be seen to be measured as % (I am sure u didn't mean this).
I further feel that gap rules which were being used earlier are a very useful and strong contenders to be re-included in out list.
Besides, it is not that we haven't had 2-3 losing trades in a row with this method in past. we have had. And we have recovered very sharply. I am confident that we will do the same now also.
Only thing is not to feel hesistant to express our opinion within the declared parameters just because everyone else has declared opposite opinion (This is for Satya ! who expressed his hesitation to go against the collective opinion).

regards,
vin

 

[niftychance]

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