Going With The 60min Flow!!!
- Thread starter Saint
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We can recall what we used to do earlier with gaps.
If in a long position, and gap below latest PL (which is our SL), then apply gap reversal rules.
If in a short position, and gap above latest PH (which is our SL), then apply gap reversal rules.
If in a long position, and 3-4 days of good up run (which may have WRB's also) AND gap above latest PH, then apply gap reversal rules as the previous price action coupled with up gap indicates exhaustion.
If in a short position, and 3-4 days of good down run (which may have WRB's also) AND gap below latest PL, then apply gap reversal rules as the previous price action coupled with up gap indicates exhaustion.
The above are also listed in some flow charts by (niftychance ? or someone else ?)
The lesson is, with gaps : there is going to be subjectivity .
regards,
vin
If in a long position, and gap below latest PL (which is our SL), then apply gap reversal rules.
If in a short position, and gap above latest PH (which is our SL), then apply gap reversal rules.
If in a long position, and 3-4 days of good up run (which may have WRB's also) AND gap above latest PH, then apply gap reversal rules as the previous price action coupled with up gap indicates exhaustion.
If in a short position, and 3-4 days of good down run (which may have WRB's also) AND gap below latest PL, then apply gap reversal rules as the previous price action coupled with up gap indicates exhaustion.
The above are also listed in some flow charts by (niftychance ? or someone else ?)
The lesson is, with gaps : there is going to be subjectivity .
regards,
vin
I do not remember what Saint has advised here but am trying to put forward what I believe is correct :
Your first chart is for 1st and 3rd October (2nd was a holiday). We were long on 1st October. Market opened with a Gap down, "a visual gap' down, adverse to our position. We reverse our position below the opening low less room. There is no need to wait for any bar closing.
Your second chart is for 16th and 17th October. On 16th we were long. On 17th when 11 AM bar was completed we had a PH and a PL formed by multiple bars : the 3 PM bar and 4 PM bar of 16th and 10 AM and 11 AM bar of 17th together formed the Pivots. The higher of these bars was a PH level and the lower level was a PL level hence a SAR in this case. At the close of 11 AM bar we had a SAR level in place hence the question of waiting for any other bar to close was not required.
Today I would go long over the 11 AM bars high without waitng for the 12 Noon bar to complete, only qualifying thing would be whether or not the 12 Noon bar breaches the low of 11 AM bar. If it does and moves up I go long, if it does not I wait for another bar. My thinking is that if 11 AM bars low is not breached by 12 Noon bar then the entire move since morning would be a sideways move, keeping in mind that the first bar is just 5 minutes bar hence wait for another bar.
Your first chart is for 1st and 3rd October (2nd was a holiday). We were long on 1st October. Market opened with a Gap down, "a visual gap' down, adverse to our position. We reverse our position below the opening low less room. There is no need to wait for any bar closing.
Your second chart is for 16th and 17th October. On 16th we were long. On 17th when 11 AM bar was completed we had a PH and a PL formed by multiple bars : the 3 PM bar and 4 PM bar of 16th and 10 AM and 11 AM bar of 17th together formed the Pivots. The higher of these bars was a PH level and the lower level was a PL level hence a SAR in this case. At the close of 11 AM bar we had a SAR level in place hence the question of waiting for any other bar to close was not required.
Today I would go long over the 11 AM bars high without waitng for the 12 Noon bar to complete, only qualifying thing would be whether or not the 12 Noon bar breaches the low of 11 AM bar. If it does and moves up I go long, if it does not I wait for another bar. My thinking is that if 11 AM bars low is not breached by 12 Noon bar then the entire move since morning would be a sideways move, keeping in mind that the first bar is just 5 minutes bar hence wait for another bar.
Last edited:
RK
Charts are easy to analyse in retrospect and that was the reasson I didnt mention the dates earlier. I wanted everyone to see only that part.
CHART1
gap up or gap down , trading holiday does not change the defination pivot .. a pivot remains a pivot. And if you look closely GAP down opening was well above our SAR.and gap rule was not applied.. reversal was based on pivot. If it would have been so simple there would have been no chaos that day.
Chart2.
you are saying what I am trying to say in a different manner. The only difference is if you do not consider 2 bars as multiple bar. It is not necessary that we should have 3-4 bars forming PH or PL.
On your comment on todays reversal look at the chart 1 again and see the blue bar did not cross the HIGH of first bar but still reversal was called. We did not wait for third bar to cross the high and the breaches low and then reversed.
Looking at the chart one can give any number of explanations ... its better to read that day posts and see on what basis reversals were called ...
I have chosen these two days charts because on both the ocassions none of us reversed with saint .... we all failed to see such pivots .. we all waited for next bar to complete .... we all waited to see if next bar cross the high of previous bar or not ....
And remember on 3rd and 17th we were long and today we were short .. so before comparing kindly adjust.
Charts are easy to analyse in retrospect and that was the reasson I didnt mention the dates earlier. I wanted everyone to see only that part.
CHART1
gap up or gap down , trading holiday does not change the defination pivot .. a pivot remains a pivot. And if you look closely GAP down opening was well above our SAR.and gap rule was not applied.. reversal was based on pivot. If it would have been so simple there would have been no chaos that day.
Chart2.
you are saying what I am trying to say in a different manner. The only difference is if you do not consider 2 bars as multiple bar. It is not necessary that we should have 3-4 bars forming PH or PL.
On your comment on todays reversal look at the chart 1 again and see the blue bar did not cross the HIGH of first bar but still reversal was called. We did not wait for third bar to cross the high and the breaches low and then reversed.
Looking at the chart one can give any number of explanations ... its better to read that day posts and see on what basis reversals were called ...
I have chosen these two days charts because on both the ocassions none of us reversed with saint .... we all failed to see such pivots .. we all waited for next bar to complete .... we all waited to see if next bar cross the high of previous bar or not ....
And remember on 3rd and 17th we were long and today we were short .. so before comparing kindly adjust.
RK
Agree 100% on this.
Trading holiday was mentioned so as not to confuse people reading the post as to why a date is missing. Yes it does not change the definition of the Pivot.
As mentioned at the begining of my post, my reply is as per my understanding, and the same may be erroneous.
I do not know about the chaos here. I reversed on the basis of gap less room hence posted the same. As there is no Pivot being considered here the question of waiting for a bar to 'complete' does not arise in this case. The next bar did not breach the level of 'gap minus room' and the bar there after also did not breach the reversing level. Here others could have used the sideways rule and gone short below the lowest level of the first three bars. In fact I would like to mention out of context that the difference between this level and the SAR was meagre and so there was no need for a 'chaos' as such. We have had bigger difference in reversing levels than a mere ~20 odd points.
Do appreciate that one of the 2 bars that you are considering today is a 5 minuye bar.
As already commented above : The SAR was not becoz of a PL but either a gap against our position or below a sideways movement. As such there was no need to look for whether or not a bar has breached the high or low.
I dont usually read the posts in RT in 60 minutes flow so as not to get swayed by what is posted by various people. I dont feel the need to do so now also. Just because no one reversed with Saint it tells me either there was no clear cut Pivot formed or the pivot formed was not of usual nature and reversal was due to some other factor. Most of us, including me, on a few occassions do not see what Saint sees in a chart and fail to be with hiom. I must have read the posts on those days later on but very frankly as my trades turned out to be favourable I might not have paid much attention.
Sorry Komal, but this went over my head, could not understand what you are trying to say here. If important do clarify what is to be adjusted before comparing.
Just as a trading holiday does not change the definition of a pivot .. a pivot remains a pivot, irrespective of whether we are Long or Short!!!
Agree 100% on this.
Trading holiday was mentioned so as not to confuse people reading the post as to why a date is missing. Yes it does not change the definition of the Pivot.
As mentioned at the begining of my post, my reply is as per my understanding, and the same may be erroneous.
I do not know about the chaos here. I reversed on the basis of gap less room hence posted the same. As there is no Pivot being considered here the question of waiting for a bar to 'complete' does not arise in this case. The next bar did not breach the level of 'gap minus room' and the bar there after also did not breach the reversing level. Here others could have used the sideways rule and gone short below the lowest level of the first three bars. In fact I would like to mention out of context that the difference between this level and the SAR was meagre and so there was no need for a 'chaos' as such. We have had bigger difference in reversing levels than a mere ~20 odd points.
Do appreciate that one of the 2 bars that you are considering today is a 5 minuye bar.
As already commented above : The SAR was not becoz of a PL but either a gap against our position or below a sideways movement. As such there was no need to look for whether or not a bar has breached the high or low.
I dont usually read the posts in RT in 60 minutes flow so as not to get swayed by what is posted by various people. I dont feel the need to do so now also. Just because no one reversed with Saint it tells me either there was no clear cut Pivot formed or the pivot formed was not of usual nature and reversal was due to some other factor. Most of us, including me, on a few occassions do not see what Saint sees in a chart and fail to be with hiom. I must have read the posts on those days later on but very frankly as my trades turned out to be favourable I might not have paid much attention.
Sorry Komal, but this went over my head, could not understand what you are trying to say here. If important do clarify what is to be adjusted before comparing.
Just as a trading holiday does not change the definition of a pivot .. a pivot remains a pivot, irrespective of whether we are Long or Short!!!
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