Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[Prabhjeet]

Scares me as well Czar, Saint & Sec 5. A market is actually being constructed to take our stoplosses and the intresting thing to note is that markets go on to take the stoploss levels which are posted here, sometimes I have my stoplosses that are farther away as per my judgement and guess what they are never touched.

I think the time to stop posting our levels is approaching soon. Think about it this is a totally open forum and we have maximum hits on both the threads by Saint, we better make this thread educational one only.

Man I never thought that a method can get so big

 

[Prabhjeet]

That is a big compliment for Traderji members.

True Sec 5, but market is so big that maybe 1/2 spooks is what big players can afford....

& with Saint & other valuable members always tweaking the rules , its impossible to keep up for them...

Its like Catch me if you can

Recently I was reading a book named ELECTRONIC TRADING by Joe Ross, according to him, thought the markets are too big to actually manipulate the Longer term trend but traders should be aware that Daily moves are the result of all kind of manipulations and there are all kind of engineered moves to take as many as stoplosses of weak hands lying out there.

Suppose Nifty Futures are trading at 2750 today, all that Market makers have to do is put some buying orders to wash the stops and then they can sell their contracts at much better prices, isnt it

 

[Czar]

I would never make up what i said earlier, I warned you its spread more than you guys know & the pivot + 15 is a chant... imagine you guys were giving 15 space at 4k+ and even at 2.8/3K 15 + (which is a larger %) still its getting hit now more than few months back.... point is volumes & traders have become less thus now 60 mins pivot +15 has a become a target to eat for the hungry big traders....

even 2 months b4 the +15 was salvaged by .50 paise many times & now its getting hit... its not paranoia its the truth....

this method gives money honey .... whatever gives money a rich big trader can just hire 50 people to trade that system for him...

only saviour can be increase in volumes in the market but then bear markets are known to dry vols...

 

[rakeshluthra430]

Scares me as well Czar, Saint & Sec 5. A market is actually being constructed to take our stoplosses and the intresting thing to note is that markets go on to take the stoploss levels which are posted here, sometimes I have my stoplosses that are farther away as per my judgement and guess what they are never touched.

I think the time to stop posting our levels is approaching soon. Think about it this is a totally open forum and we have maximum hits on both the threads by Saint, we better make this thread educational one only.

Man I never thought that a method can get so big

Prabh,
Stopping that wont help the matter I think....not only the levels, but the method by which we arrive at them is an open 'secret'. Though stop posting levels would surely help its bit.

I too was getting this feeling..but didnt post here thinking I am unduly getting worried on hitting a few stops.

So...the solution now? The only thing I can think of is, each one of us (so called 'seniors') work on some tweaks, discuss it with Saint via pms or personally..and adopt our own individual system....And then 'adopt' a few newcomers each who are willing to learn and teach them our own method.

Even a fresher wont get hurt..as the real meat is already there in this thread...its only that someone has to make efforts to go through it in details.

All this ONLY if we see the same phennomena continuing...maybe after a fortnight or so.

Pl let me know your views....hope and wish we are just exxagerating the matter and everything will get fine.

 

[ARMHM]

Found the post on the ET forums that explains the "phenomenon" better. (Can't be bothered to edit it)



Take today's session for example. In terms of volume, our PH reversal was the "single" biggest order executed. And our PL reversal was the second biggest. And it's not just today either, a quick look through the charts and I see a significant volume spike whenever we reverse. We're no longer a secret society hidden in the depths of the internet, we're officially mainstream.

Our volumes are now large enough to be noticed, and since all of us enter our SLs beforehand, I'm guessing it's a pretty juicy piece of meat dangling in front of the lions(big players). So am I just being paranoid or is there a negative side effect to our expansion?

IMHO that can not be so. The reason we are trading mainly Nifty futures which is an index derivative and this index is controlled by 50 stocks. To bring the index up or down one has to move the individual stock up or down considerably or at least the heavy weights. That involves huge amount of money even as margin. Even "syndicates" can not do that on an ongoing basis. So no need to worry, we are flowing with the waves and will keep doing so. We are adjusting our sails according to the wind and no matter who is controlling the wind if at all one is controlling.

 

[Prabhjeet]

IMHO that can not be so. The reason we are trading mainly Nifty futures which is an index derivative and this index is controlled by 50 stocks. To bring the index up or down one has to move the individual stock up or down considerably or at least the heavy weights. That involves huge amount of money even as margin. Even "syndicates" can not do that on an ongoing basis. So no need to worry, we are flowing with the waves and will keep doing so. We are adjusting our sails according to the wind and no matter who is controlling the wind if at all one is controlling.

Cannot disagree more ARMHM, it is actually possible to manipulate the short- term prices , the big players can see where the maximum stops are and they play this game everyday.

And mind you , these are markets where money is earned in a very hard way, professionals wont let us get away people with free Trade levels that are posted here

 

[Prabhjeet]

Prabh,
Stopping that wont help the matter I think....not only the levels, but the method by which we arrive at them is an open 'secret'. Though stop posting levels would surely help its bit.

I too was getting this feeling..but didnt post here thinking I am unduly getting worried on hitting a few stops.

So...the solution now? The only thing I can think of is, each one of us (so called 'seniors') work on some tweaks, discuss it with Saint via pms or personally..and adopt our own individual system....And then 'adopt' a few newcomers each who are willing to learn and teach them our own method.

Even a fresher wont get hurt..as the real meat is already there in this thread...its only that someone has to make efforts to go through it in details.

All this ONLY if we see the same phennomena continuing...maybe after a fortnight or so.

Pl let me know your views....hope and wish we are just exxagerating the matter and everything will get fine.

But why cant we stop posting levels Rakesh, the original purpose of this thread was to teach us how to trade, we have more or less already achieved that then why not leave this thread just for discussions.

Now talking about method, well I am not sure everyone will go and try to study the charts to find where the probable stops of 60 Min. flow traders should be, even if they do have an idea, I am sure stops for 60 min. traders will most os the time vary from person to person as I have now understood that flow mwthod is an ART rather than SCIENCE, and everyone looks at the art with his own perspective.

We should actually try and save newbies who are being constantly being whipsawed even after following the levels posted here thoroughly

 

[ARMHM]

Cannot disagree more ARMHM, it is actually possible to manipulate the short- term prices , the big players can see where the maximum stops are and they play this game everyday.

And mind you , these are markets where money is earned in a very hard way, professionals wont let us get away people with free Trade levels that are posted here

So should we devise some secret method of communication between members to beat these guys in thier own game? Or we stop discussion/posting absolute numbers/SL etc. for a couple of weeks and observe the market action. This way we will know exactly where the market is heading.

 

[faith]

yes prabh the best thing is to stop posting the figures ,this is not a tip giving thread .

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[Prabhjeet]

I was just nursing an idea osf even trade filter. We can actually avoid some trades which have lower probability of sucess. I am putting 2 ideas here, there are atleast 10 more in my mind


1. We could take only those 60 min. trades that tend to agree with Daily Trend according to pivots. We have always been taught to respect the higher time frame

2. We could use the last 15 min. Pivot for stop when we make initial entry, suppose we enter long and soon our 15 min. pivot low gets hit, we should reverse to shorts immediately and may be we can get in long again if the latest Pivot hi on 60 min. is taken out again

The logic is that if we have a true Trend reversal on a Larger time frame, the smaller time frame wont immediately start going against the Larger time frame