Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[niftyrider]

Re: Live discussion Saint's - 60 minute flow

srinishare

THNX. NICE POLL

 

[no1lives4ever]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Thanks NC and ST for your kind words.

I still see people requesting for latest rules, or Step by step instructions etc. just wanted to point out couple of points to newcomers
Now the rules are pretty much set and I do not think there will be any changes to the existing rules. Only thing one might have to add is his own tweaks if any (evolution). But these tweaks are just based on ones personality. But with any tweak or deviation I must re-iterate that you follow it consistently.
Even if you find you made a mistake on a SAR point and went in the opposite direction, if you think your decision was right then just stay with your trade, do not just reverse just because others are opposite to you. Either you or others are right and soon everyone will unite automatically. Stick to YOUR RULES.
Be prepared to loose couple of initial trades (atleast 3 trades) when you begin fresh. Dont get out, with this method when you loose couple of continuous trades, that is the time you get one big move. Wait for it.
Compilation guide I have done is just a starting point for anyone entering new to this method. I strongly recommend everyone to do a back test atleast for a year time on each stock/contract you are intending to trade before actually put your money.
I dont think the paper trading would be of any help. As even though I know this method yields profit I still bail out under pressure at times, when you trade on paper you do not have this pressure. So its important that you trade with your money, but trade light may be Mini Nifty, do not go with full swing at the beginning. Remember your SARs are mostly far away in this method.
Back testing: setup the rules before you back test. Be prepared to back test with consistence, repeat backtesting with different settings if needed. Do not cheat while backtesting. While backtesting make sure to set the chart view so that the right side of the chart is not visible to you and go one by one candle/bar to make your decisions on your SARS/ADDS. Do not zoom out and have a full view of the charts and decide about a pivot or a SAR.

Hope this is of some use to newcomers.

Have a good trade.

I would like to add that whoever is trading this method, should look at the money management part also clearly. If you can not take 5 continous losses when trading this method, then you should address the mm part first.

Here is a basic calculation that i have come with for anyone who is still confused with money management for this method.

On an average, we have SAR at least 100 points away from our entry when trading in Nifty. When you do the backtesting, you can get a more accurate figure, but for clarity, lets proceed with 100 as the figure. Now for a method like this, for each trade, the maximum risk at entry should not be more than 2% of your account capital.

So for Nifty, lot size = 50, so initial risk = 50*100 on an average = 5000 rupees per lot of initial risk.

if x is our account capital, then 2% of x should be = 5000, i.e.:

2x/100 = rs. 5000, or x = Rs. 2,50,000/-

Similarly for mini nifty with a lot size of 20, the figure will come to rs. 1,00,000/-

These are bare minimum figures you need to have in your trading account to trade this method somewhat comfortably. You can trade this method with much lesser money in your account, but then you will also end up with a lot of heartache with every loss and if you are trading with very little capital then a few small losses one after the other can end up reducing your account significantly.

Similarly you can calculate for any other stock future.

Since this method also depends a lot on adds and occational SARs which are around 200 points away from entry, i would recommend that in place of using the 2% initial risk, use something like 1% for at least the first lot.

Another way to look at money management would be to look at max historical drawdown, then add the initial margin required to trade one lot and trade with that ammount of money. This would be a very risky and aggressive money management system, but it should still keep you in the game unless. Typically i would double the drawdown figure and add some filter if using this money management method. I would recommend this method only to those who are comfortable trading this method and who are prepared to see big drawdown in percentage terms.

-- no1lives4ever

 

[orderflow13]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

I would like to add that whoever is trading this method, should look at the money management part also clearly. If you can not take 5 continous losses when trading this method, then you should address the mm part first.

Here is a basic calculation that i have come with for anyone who is still confused with money management for this method.

On an average, we have SAR at least 100 points away from our entry when trading in Nifty. When you do the backtesting, you can get a more accurate figure, but for clarity, lets proceed with 100 as the figure. Now for a method like this, for each trade, the maximum risk at entry should not be more than 2% of your account capital.

So for Nifty, lot size = 50, so initial risk = 50*100 on an average = 5000 rupees per lot of initial risk.

if x is our account capital, then 2% of x should be = 5000, i.e.:

2x/100 = rs. 5000, or x = Rs. 2,50,000/-

Similarly for mini nifty with a lot size of 20, the figure will come to rs. 1,00,000/-

These are bare minimum figures you need to have in your trading account to trade this method somewhat comfortably. You can trade this method with much lesser money in your account, but then you will also end up with a lot of heartache with every loss and if you are trading with very little capital then a few small losses one after the other can end up reducing your account significantly.

Similarly you can calculate for any other stock future.

Since this method also depends a lot on adds and occational SARs which are around 200 points away from entry, i would recommend that in place of using the 2% initial risk, use something like 1% for at least the first lot.

Another way to look at money management would be to look at max historical drawdown, then add the initial margin required to trade one lot and trade with that ammount of money. This would be a very risky and aggressive money management system, but it should still keep you in the game unless. Typically i would double the drawdown figure and add some filter if using this money management method. I would recommend this method only to those who are comfortable trading this method and who are prepared to see big drawdown in percentage terms.

-- no1lives4ever

Excellent input no1lives4ever
This is the core issue really.Most guys come and see profits in this method ( and they name it 'SYSTEM' instead of 'METHOD') and they try their luck and when they cant manage their losses and they panic, who still hold their position and trust on the SYSTEM, after few SAR hits curse on THE SYSTEM and blame on others and there comes some angry posts.
Saint sir clearly emphasized the importance of money management, but most ignore that MM post of Saint as per their convenience, there are few ppls who think their is a holey grail n they say ' hey i got one, bingo !! ' then they dream of covering their past losses, few dreams doing this n that out of of this profit n when few sar hits - which is inevitable in any trading method as nothing is 100 % success in trading world or real life- they get panic.
Crux of the issue is dont trade derivatives until you have less than 5 lack or at least 3 lack in ur account IMHO. Money management is so important that if you ignore it you will perish for all bad decisions you gonna repent sooner than later.My earnest request is first reevaluate how much you gonna risk, if you comfortable risking your all capital then ignore this post or post of no1lives4ever and if you serious about your hard earn penny then make your MM note book and only then start trading flow method.Trust me big stop losses/sar ( which is a relative term ) will give you creeps if u under capitalize and u will blame the method where as u must blame ur self IMHO again.
P.S. sorry, now a days i really refrain from posting other than trading but i really felt like sharing it, I might be wrong as i am also a avid learner of the trade, so there is nothing personal to any one of my trader friends.
Regards
Alex

 

[niftychance]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Hello Sam, No.1 and Alex

Great posts.


Just as an example, a typical stop on NF would be 100 - 125 points away that is about 4% of its value ...

Now if you have to limit the risk to 2%, then your need for risk capital is 200% of the value of the trade and not just 15-20%.

The margin required to trade futures is very less and that brings along this wrong notion that we can trade as long as we have the margin amount and some extra cash to pay for the -ve trades ...

Thanks

 

[simple]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

time for weekend review.... so lets get fired up

Simple

 

[KomaL2099]

Re: Live discussion Saint's - 60 minute flow

None of these 4 up bars are WRB's. So we should have 5-6 upbars I feel.

regards,
vin

we have 6 bar with HH formation ... no need to wait more .2 bar rule can ber applied.

 

[KomaL2099]

Re: Live discussion Saint's - 60 minute flow

Or should we say Most people voting here trade in Nifty..

The exact conclusion cannoty be derived unless we know AUB or AIntersectionB.

AUB= A+B-AintersectionB.

we know A+B=51+49 as mentioned ...
So there are three subsets now .. 1 who only trade NIFTY ..2 Who only trade stocks and 3 Who trade both.

So this can be through various possiblilities
But most likely in our case 49% trading in stocks are also trading Nifty ..
So deducting it from 51% ... there are only 2% who trade ONLY NIFTY .. ONLY STOCKS 0% and BOTH 49%.

CAT yaad aagaya ...

 

[Prabhjeet]

Re: Live discussion Saint's - 60 minute flow

The exact conclusion cannoty be derived unless we know AUB or AIntersectionB.

AUB= A+B-AintersectionB.

we know A+B=51+49 as mentioned ...
So there are three subsets now .. 1 who only trade NIFTY ..2 Who only trade stocks and 3 Who trade both.

So this can be through various possiblilities
But most likely in our case 49% trading in stocks are also trading Nifty ..
So deducting it from 51% ... there are only 2% who trade ONLY NIFTY .. ONLY STOCKS 0% and BOTH 49%.

CAT yaad aagaya ...

I wish I had prepared for CAT sometime, cant understand single thing, I voted for 4 stocks which I trade and now by your Mathemetical conclusion I dont trade even a single stock so where have I put my money , oh god

 

[Pattel]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Suzlon Last week trades.

 

[Pattel]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Nice flow in Relcap also