Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[simple]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

for some strange reason.. i cannot than anyone... i mean i do nt see the thank button on my screen ...so wud have to write it down..
Thanks PP patel and rakesh sirs ... my trades almost the same as PP sir's

PP sir..we need to get some homework done i guess

Simple

 

[Prabhjeet]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Rakesh I totally agree with the trades for JP Associates and ABAN but dont agree with the trades put for HDIL.

Saint had advised to have a laid back attitude for Stocks. I am trading HDIL myself. Here is the chart of actual trades

 

[beethoven]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Rakesh,

Thanks for posting these trades. Your hard work much appreciated.

Just one question in JPA - first trade, short, on Dec5, - you put your SAR at Dec 4, 3 pm low - room. Could not understand this?

Had you placed it as per 2 bar rule below the 1pm bar (on Dec4) then that whipsaw could have been avoided.

Bee

 

[Reji]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Rakesh,

Thanks for posting these trades. Your hard work much appreciated.

Just one question in JPA - first trade, short, on Dec5, - you put your SAR at Dec 4, 3 pm low - room. Could not understand this?

Had you placed it as per 2 bar rule below the 1pm bar (on Dec4) then that whipsaw could have been avoided.

Bee

Hi Bee,

3 PM bar on Dec 4 was a WRB and we put our SAR at low - room. In an uptrend, if the pivot is lower than the WRB, he considers the low of WRB as a pivot, which is rightly so. Kindly review the WRBs in all his charts.​

Regards

Reji

 

[Smart_trade]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Rakesh,

Thanks for posting these trades. Your hard work much appreciated.

Just one question in JPA - first trade, short, on Dec5, - you put your SAR at Dec 4, 3 pm low - room. Could not understand this?

Had you placed it as per 2 bar rule below the 1pm bar (on Dec4) then that whipsaw could have been avoided.

Bee

Hello Bee,

Rakesh has probably reversed because the low of WRB bullish candle was cracked not on 2 bars reversal. I am aware that lot of eyebrows will be raised by reversing at WRB low and some of us will say "not in rules". But we have to incorporate additional fineness in our trading and to take these reversals or not is entirely indivisual call.

I would have reversed still higher at low of candles at 3:30 (on 4th),and 10:00 and 11:00 (on 5th) due to following reasons :

1) Bullish WRB after a prolonged strong move,next bar closes at 50 % of the WRB and the low of this resting bar cracked.

2) Nearly equal lows of 3 candles gives a pivot at the low of these candles in form of sideways movement and calls for reversal to short.

The aggressive approach has its advantages of catching the moves early but it also has a trade off of some false starts and whipsaws. Everyone will have to take a call on what all he/she is going to incorporate in his/her trading and be consistant with it.That in my view is the key to success.

Best Wishes,

Smart_trade

 

[beethoven]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

ST

Thanks for your reply. Here are some of my views.

1. Now in 60 minutes flow we have to give some space for a Higher PL to form (in case of long trades). This is the essence of 60 minutes flow.

2. Now as you know a steep move up say 4 bar up move or more will have a deep pull back - it may not be sharp i.e., in next hour but can happen in next two three hours. That is why Saint has given 2 bar rule which statistically says that it is not too low and gives enough space for the prices to travel back and again resume its upward journey making a higher PL so that we also progress up. [WRB breakage here does not have relevance here because WRB is made of price at the 1st min and 60th min of a particular hour whereas in a 4 bar up move or more we have a continuum of 4 or more hours of upmove of prices so a WRB becomes irrelevant but lowest price ruling some three hours back (read 2 bar rule) becomes more relevant as a SAR point on a 60 min TF gameplan]. Hope I could convey my thoughts here.

3. If someone plays very aggressive then a) do you wish to harvest some points on every pullback, if yes then this will become like 30 min miniflow but played on 60 min TF which I do not believe is the intention here.
b) an aggressive approach will also lead to breakage of the flow in a big move up. The longer the up move the deeper will be the pullbacks hence our stops have to be moved very conservatively to order to get the maximum out of a move.

4. If you see last week's up trend in NF and all stocks - a little conservative approach would have saved many whipsaws which to my mind were within the rules and very foreseeable. At least I benefited from this approach.

Some food for thought.

Bee

 

[Pattel]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

4. If you see last week's up trend in NF and all stocks - a little conservative approach would have saved many whipsaws which to my mind were within the rules and very foreseeable. At least I benefited from this approach.

Bee

Bee,
I see what you are saying for last week, but to conclude that laid-back/conservative approach is better than aggressive i would wish to see some data to support it. Speaking for Nifty alone here as i use a laid-back approach for stocks myself.

So best way to conclude is this is to take atleast 3 months of backtested result to compare both approach. few weeks back me and rakesh posted results comparing laid back approach and slightly aggressive approach(WRB not considered) and results you know right? aggressive was far better in results. had to remove those posts due to reasons most of you know already.

 

[beethoven]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Bee,
I see what you are saying for last week, but to conclude that laid-back/conservative approach is better than aggressive i would wish to see some data to support it. Speaking for Nifty alone here as i use a laid-back approach for stocks myself.

So best way to conclude is this is to take atleast 3 months of backtested result to compare both approach. few weeks back me and rakesh posted results comparing laid back approach and slightly aggressive approach(WRB not considered) and results you know right? aggressive was far better in results. had to remove those posts due to reasons most of you know already.

Pattel,

What is better and what is not, is not the question here. That will come later. People are welcome to back test and see what is best. But I am speaking purely from interpretation point of view. We have still to grasp the full picture of this method. If you people have already done so and see what I have said in my posts above then I must say that I am a laggard and am slow to see things .

You see everything meshes beautifully. 2 bar rule in a sharp upthrust shows shades of fibonacci retracement principle ( in aggressive strategy, we are not giving it room to retrace and resume its onward journey. If you are that aggressive then try and capture the retracement points which you are not doing, so you are loosing both ways, isn't it) and prices ruling three hours back makes a case for 3 hours EMA juxtaposed on a higher EMA (which higher EMA also is a matter of further research which is my area of interest but does not fit into this thread). I am not going colour this method with my ideas and would leave it to be driven in its pristine and pure form of Saint's original ideas.

I do not very clearly recall the exact nature of your posts which you said were later deleted which is a pity. All thoughts should be there for all to explore and examine and then move on. That is the very idea of this forum.

Individual trades and accounts are very private in nature but ideas if kept private will never grow.

Keep posting friends. Good forum for excellent discussions!!!!

Bee

 

[Pattel]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

All thoughts should be there for all to explore and examine and then move on.

No offense meant my friend Bee, my point is same as yours, lets be open to new ideas. Let rakesh post his ideas through charts. Would be interesting to know your approach in Nifty last 2 weeks, if you have time to post.

 

[Prabhjeet]

Re: 60min Flow Trades for the Week: Saint's Method

Pattel,

What is better and what is not, is not the question here. That will come later. People are welcome to back test and see what is best. But I am speaking purely from interpretation point of view. We have still to grasp the full picture of this method. If you people have already done so and see what I have said in my posts above then I must say that I am a laggard and am slow to see things .

You see everything meshes beautifully. 2 bar rule in a sharp upthrust shows shades of fibonacci retracement principle ( in aggressive strategy, we are not giving it room to retrace and resume its onward journey. If you are that aggressive then try and capture the retracement points which you are not doing, so you are loosing both ways, isn't it) and prices ruling three hours back makes a case for 3 hours EMA juxtaposed on a higher EMA (which higher EMA also is a matter of further research which is my area of interest but does not fit into this thread). I am not going colour this method with my ideas and would leave it to be driven in its pristine and pure form of Saint's original ideas.

I do not very clearly recall the exact nature of your posts which you said were later deleted which is a pity. All thoughts should be there for all to explore and examine and then move on. That is the very idea of this forum.

Individual trades and accounts are very private in nature but ideas if kept private will never grow.

Keep posting friends. Good forum for excellent discussions!!!!

Bee

Totally agree with Bee's view. I know Nifty is a totally different beast altogether but for stocks its good if we can sit back a bit and let them form visually obvious pivots.

I was watching the trades for HDIL put here for last 2 weeks, we had to change our positions from long to short atleast twice and both the shorts were false moves. Its not that we cant get false moves using a bit laid back approach but the real pain is that we missed 2-3 adds plus added whipsaws on our SHORT positions.

So the system which was designed to keep us in the flow is stopping every now and then, in 60 min.flow method we want lesser trades but the ones which are profitable should be fat ones. We can wait for sometime for move to develop even against us as we already have tight stops but we have to LET OUR PROFITS RUN, we cannot intervene between trades every now and then.The whole idea behind 60 min. Flow was 2 simple lines CUT YOUR LOSSES and LET YOUR PROFITS RUN, so that should be thoroughly followed .

For me the 60 min. flow has 4 simple steps:-

1. Enter at change of Trend according to Pivots and put your stoploss at 1st Pivot

2. Wait for Visually Obvious Higher Pivot low (Longs) to form

3. You get a Higher Pivot lo, ADD at break of Pivot hi and move stops to Higher pivot lo.

Keep on repeating steps 2 and 3 until either PIVOT stops are hit or you get VERTICAL moves.

4. When move gets Vertical use 2 Bar Back stop, simple.


Nothing much to be done except counting the money that Markets are putting into our pockets

Regards