If GOD appears in front and ask me "what do u want"?

[.Pride.]

Pride, let's get something straight. You are not hurting anyone's sensibilities. You are actually hurting yourself. Like, give me a break! You are trying to disprove an almighty God, who is not only God, but he is my Heavenly Father. It is impossible to disprove God.
As far as your other comment is concerned, I don't like you shoving your views down my throat. But then, there are a lot of things I don't like. I learned to get over it. Why don't you do the same instead of your sensibilities being so ill-effected.

The Bible is God's Word, and another thing no one can deny are the principles taught in it.

As far as the question is concerned, the answer for me is simple. God does the leading. I just want to follow. I want the grace that is needed to follow.

I know it is nearly impossible to logically argue with religious people because they adopt these beliefs for irrational reasons...
(mainly a psychological need for an all-powerful sky-daddy )
and I have no real desire to "convert" them to my position...

also, in my opinion it is impossible to have a real argument with a religious person because arguing to me means using logic and facts.
No matter what I say, the religious person can always reject it. Somehow they can reject fundamental facts of nature and when they feel cornered, they bring up every religious persons ultimate comeback : its God.he can do anything.
Once they have said that it is overI cannot say anything to which they cannot reply with that.

Instead, I would suggest that people should take a look at this website:
http://godisimaginary.com

Taken from http://godisimaginary.com/i5.htm

Imagine that we are good friends. One day we are talking:



Me: Wow, you will not believe this new book I've been reading!

You: What's it about?

Me: It is a manual for living a better life. It is also a guide to creating a better society for ourselves and our children. It has changed my life!

You: That sounds like an important book. Who wrote it?

Me: The author is supposed to be the smartest person in the universe.

You: That's amazing -- if the author is the smartest person in the universe, the book must be absolutely brilliant. I can't wait to see it. Do you have a copy with you?

Me: Absolutely! I carry it with me everywhere I go! Here, have a look for yourself...

You open the book to a random page, and you find this:

Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech.

If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his fathers wife has uncovered his fathers nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]

You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.

You: I thought you said that this is written by the most intelligent person in the universe. If we are going to follow what this author says, we have to kill half the people in America. We are supposed to kill everyone who has cursed his father or mother, everyone who has committed adultery, and every homosexual.

Me: Well, that's in the old testament, you see. The book is really two books, and the "old" part of the book doesn't really apply.

You: Are you saying that the smartest person in the universe once wanted us to kill every adulterer and homosexual, but then changed his mind? That somehow makes it better? If the "old part" no longer applies, then why did you hand it to me when I asked to see the book?

Me: Well, parts of it do apply.

You: Didn't you just tell me that it doesn't apply?

You open the book to another random page and you find this:

When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her masters and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.

Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.

When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.

When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owners property. [Exodus, chapter 21]

Again, you are dumfounded. Here the author of the book is advocating slavery, the branding of slaves, and the wholesale beating of slaves. You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.

You: You have to be kidding me. Here the "smartest person in the universe" is telling us that slavery is OK and that we are free to beat our slaves.


You open the book to another random page and you find this:

I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. [1 Timothy, chapter 2]

You are nearly speechless. But you manage to find your voice.

You: Is this some kind of joke? "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man." That is totally sexist! In America, there are millions of female teachers and we have women throughout our corporate and govenment hierarchies. No intelligent person believes that women should be silenced.

As you page through the book further you find that it is totally sexist from beginning to end.

You keep opening the book to random pages, and nearly everything you find is utter nonsense. Either it is meaningless, completely irrelevant, disgusting or downright wrong.

If you are a scientist it is even worse, and it starts with the very first line:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...

That's not true. In the beginning a natural event created the universe as we know it, and the earth did not form until billions of years later. The creation story in Genesis is completely wrong. Simply read Genesis and you can see it. For example, the Bible says that light and darkness are created after the water but before the sun. Everyone knows that the sun came first, then the planet and its rotation (which is what causes light and darkness to occur on a daily basis) and then the water, and this all happened over million of years. There are many other problems with the Bible:

Man did not come from a handful of dust through some mythological being. Man evolved from other species like every other living thing has for hundreds of millions of years.
The Bible talks about a world-wide flood that covered earth in 5.5 miles of water and killed everything, yet we know it never happened. That is clear from the archeolgical record.
There was no tower of Babel where God confounded the languages of mankind.

The list goes on and on. The Bible is nonsense in a thousand different scientific ways.

Ask yourself this simple question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by an omniscient being leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight? Wouldn't you expect the author to tell us things that scientists have not been able to discover yet?

Yet, when we open the Bible and actually read it, we find it is nothing like that at all. Instead of leaving us in awe, it leaves us dumbfounded by all of the nonsense and backwardness that it contains. If you read what the Bible actually says, you find that the Bible is ridiculous. The examples shown above barely scratch the surface of the Bible's numerous problems. If we are honest with ourselves, it is obvious that an "all-knowing" God had absolutely nothing to do with this book.

The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary. The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today.

I will not discuss this topic anymore as this is not the right place to discuss religion.

 

[silverm]

I know this a repetition of my earlier post, If anyone can answer this one single very commonly known question then it will solve all the riddles of existance of God.

Can God create a bigger rock then he can roll ?

Answer this and you wont need any other reason to believe or not to believe in existence of GOD.

I side with pride on this (Horton Hears a Who!)

 

[4xpipcounter]

Pride, there is one comment you made that makes total sense. After this one thing, I feel like you, and that is the need to get out of here, so my apologies to the op. If you want, we'll exchange e-mails in the PM, and we can continue the conversation one-on-one.
You mentioned religious people, and the automated comeback, "He's God, and he can do that." Beyond any shadow of a doubt, you and I are both aware of the fact that religious people are the most notorious when it comes to speaking out of the side of their mouth. Therefore, non-religious people look on and say, "If that is God, I don't want to have anything to do with that." I'm saying don't mix God and religion up. They have nothing in common. Religious people, (Not a stereotype, but a general statement.) are spineless and have no backbone. They use God as a crutch.
I don't agree with smoking, drinking, cavorting on your spouse, lying for any reason, etc. What is more despicable is for someone to do this, then claim what grand Christians they are and show up in church and tell what a great God they serve (That is nauseating.) I have much more respect for someone who is just who they are without putting on something they are not.

Again, my apologies to the op. I'm out of here.

I know it is nearly impossible to logically argue with religious people because they adopt these beliefs for irrational reasons...
(mainly a psychological need for an all-powerful sky-daddy )
and I have no real desire to "convert" them to my position...

also, in my opinion it is impossible to have a real argument with a religious person because arguing to me means using logic and facts.
No matter what I say, the religious person can always reject it. Somehow they can reject fundamental facts of nature and when they feel cornered, they bring up every religious persons ultimate comeback : its God.he can do anything.
Once they have said that it is overI cannot say anything to which they cannot reply with that.

Instead, I would suggest that people should take a look at this website:
http://godisimaginary.com




I will not discuss this topic anymore as this is not the right place to discuss religion.

 

[new-to-markets]

The Bible is God's Word, and another thing no one can deny are the principles taught in it.

I'm saying don't mix God and religion up.

did u change between 2 statements?

 

[IAtma]

too much confusion....even god is absent........

What if god present him/her self....:rofl::rofl:

 

[jaipuriarji]

God is always there with you; your deeds are your asking and the kind of your life His award!

 

[4xpipcounter]

No! Also in response to Iatma, there is no confusion.

God does a perfect work in all he does. Having said that, we know he did not create the nominal religious world. Look at the terrible deeds that are being done in the name of religion. Look at the hypocrisy being created in the name of religion. All sorts of deeds against God are committed (The old-fashion word for it is "sin".), and then they turn up at church on Sundays like they are such wonderful Christians.
Iatma, that is your confusion. It is not created by God, but bu people slandering his name with their sinful deeds.

God produces stability in the life. Living a double life, as is the case with most religious people in as stable as water. This is why when Pride comes with his statements, I can't blame him. There were no sensitivities that he impugned upon me because I know where he is coming from. If I did not know about the miracle God created in my life, I might be agreeing with Pride. The misconception is simple. Mistaking God with the God-professing religious world.

did u change between 2 statements?

 

[4xpipcounter]

Iatma, you didn't mean to, but your last statement hit the nail on the head. This is not the thread to really get into it (PM me, and then we can talk.), but in knowing God in a personal way, he is always present. I told you he is my Heavenly Father. Does your physical dad present himself to you? My Heavenly Father presents himself to me by helping me live, not religiously, but by giving me power to free from sin.

I'm leery of diverting this thread again. I still would like to talk more if you want, so PM me if you want.

too much confusion....even god is absent........

What if god present him/her self....:rofl::rofl:

 

[.Pride.]

By Josh Becker:

Religion, of any denomination, sect or ilk, is the basis of nearly all that's evil on our lovely planet. Religion is not here to make anything better, it's only purpose to divide and separate us. We're the chosen people, you're not. Our God is the real God, yours is false and profane. Although we must show love and compassion for other members of our own religion, those of any other can be killed, tortured, and maimed because they're infidels. Religion, at its very heart, means I'm right and you're wrong, or you're right and I'm wrong, but someone's always got to be wrong.

I say that religion is the pretext for evil on our planet. Religion is the method whereby humans can rationalize their awful behavior to other humans and pawn it off as good deeds.

The basis of all Judeo-Christian religions, which includes Islam, is the old testament bible, which states very clearly "Thou Shalt Not Kill." Although I didn't know it at the time, nor is it even my title, the name of my first film is really much more appropriate: "Thou Shalt Not Kill . . . Except." As George Carlin so aptly put it, except "if you believe in another invisible man than I do." In which case the root and basis of all these religions, the ten commandments, can be happily and easily be tossed out.

Evil does not run around in a red devil suit with horns. Evil runs around as fundamentalists of every kind, Christian, Jew, Muslim or Hindu. I'll leave out the Buddhists and the Quakers because I don't think they have ever bothered anybody. But they certainly aren't joining in with the rest of us, either. Religion is about separation, me and you, them and us, it has nothing to do with living with the rest of humanity in peace. Therefore, religion is the basis of evil.

Catholic priests have been seducing and raping young boys for over a hundred years, but are adamantly against homosexuality. Muslims say they believe in the ten commandments and that Abraham, Isaac, and Moses were all holy men, but all Muslims believe in the jihad and that anyone who is not a Muslim ought to be, and eventually will be, killed. Fundamentalist Christians, who also purport to believe in the ten commandments, really believe that when the apocalypse comes and Jesus returns, all the Jews will either have to convert to Christianity or will be killed, and that's perfectly okay. Of course, Jesus will be in the nearest synagogue praying to Yaweh while this mass murder is going on. And the Jews and Hindus all believe that they are the real chosen people and everyone is just screwed anyway.
This is all moronic, simple-minded, idiotic, pre-civilized, childish thinking. Any name that we knuckleheaded humans can give to this incredible animating power that we call God, be it Jehovah, Jesus, Krishna, Allah, Buddha, or Zoroaster, are all ridiculous bullshit.

As Joseph Campbell, the great historian of mythology, so clearly pointed out, anyone that takes any of these old books of mythology literally has completely missed the point. The bibles old and new, the Koran, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Book of Zoroaster, and all the rest of the "holy" books are merely collections of mythology. They are metaphors and parables about how to live your life and how to face death. They are highly imperfect users manuals on how to get through this veil of tears we call life. If you actually believe that Jehovah is an old (white) man with a long beard who is watching each and every one of us over six billion humans and judging us, you're an imbecile. If you literally believe that Jesus is Jehovah's son, you've decided to turn off a big portion of your brain and not deal with reality. If you literally believe that if you kill an infidel that Allah will bless you with seventy-two virgins in the land of milk and honey, you've definitely got a screw loose. These are all myths. Period.
Yes, there probably were guys named Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha, but they were humans just like the rest of us. The fact that a lot of other desperate, unquestioning people gathered to them doesn't make them anything other than plain old humans.

Religion is all based on weakness and laziness. It's the throwing in of the towel on the mysteries of life. It's saying, I can't make head or tail out of any of this ****, so I'll just go with what everyone is doing. If they're all getting down on their knees, eating a cookie and believing it's the body of Christ, then I will too. If they're all wrapping themselves in leather thongs, covering their heads with beanies, and rocking back and forth, that's what I'll do. If everybody else is bowing to Mecca six times a day, I guess that's what I must do, too. This is the behavior of lemmings following other lemmings off the edge of the cliff. There is absolutely no difference between praying to Jesus, praying to Jehovah, bowing to Mecca, or lighting incense to Krishna, than there is sieg heiling to Hitler, blindly following Pol Pot into the killing fields, or chopping up Tutsis with machetes. It's all called thoughtless behavior.

It's part of our job as humans to think about and consider our place here on the planet and our position amongst all these other people. The second you abnegate this responsibility, you've fallen into an evil trap. As the writer Harlan Ellison has said, "We're all the same person under different skins," and that's truly a holy thought. All the religions on Earth want to point out is that we are all different, and we of our religion are better than those other unholy blasphemers. That's evil. And that is what all religion at its core is all about. Us and them. We're holy, they're infidels.

A word religions seem to really like, particularly the Jews is "tradition," which is the handing down of beliefs or customs from one generation to the next. This is another form of acceptance without questioning. For several hundred years an American tradition was, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." A good old Australian tradition was "the Abo-hunt," where they tracked down and shot the Aboriginal people for amusement. A good old European tradition was the pogrom, where, if your luck had turned sour, go kill some Jews. The Russians loved this tradition, but the French and Germans thought it was a pretty swell tradition, too. And it's always been a tradition of the Serbs to hate the Croats, the Hutus to hate the Tutsis, whites to hate blacks, Christians to hate Jews, Jews to hate the Palestinians, Hindus to hate the Muslims, and Muslims to hate everybody.
Well, let's just thank God for tradition, sing songs in its praise and dance the Hora.

Karl Marx said that "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and he couldn't have been more correct. Religion is a drug that encourages you to not think for yourself, and, in my very humble opinion, is much worse and far more deadly than heroin, pot, cocaine, and alcohol all put together. None of these other drugs breeds contempt for other people, but all religions do in one way or another. Religion is the insidious evil of our planet, and the sooner people start to wake up to that the sooner we can get on to bigger, more important issues like peace and goodwill toward others.

 

[4xpipcounter]

First of all, Pride, the quoted scriptures you gave are all misquoted. For one, the word "prostituting" is never found in the Bible. Still, the jest of what you are saying is how terrible these events are that you just posted. I think we are all aware of the fact we can find anything on the internet that would support our view, which is what you have so aptly done in supporting your view through Josh Becker, even though it is eskewed to say the least, because it is an effort to subvert the Bible.

I'm sure you know Leviticus is the 2rd book in the Bible written around 1600 BC, which is important in considering the context of what is written. The laws of adultery as well as other terrible sins were punishable by death in those days. It was just the laws of the land, as are our laws today that say you go to jail when you rob a bank.
I don't necessarily like the idea of putting someone to death when they commit adultery, but just imagine how better off our society would be if everyone were to take more seriously their marriage vows. Things have gotten so bad here in the USA, a person is considered an odd ball if they do not approve adultery. You certainly never hear anyone crying out against it like they did 40 years ago, and of course the religious institutions you stated sure don't.
Let's being that up to Jesus was here on Earth, which was about 1600 years after the event you quoted. They brought to him a woman that was caught in adultery, and Jesus said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her"--John 8:7. None of them were without sin, because they were a bunch of religious old law zealots. Jesus also knew anyone that was truly a Christian, or someone who was actually living free from sin would not want to cast a stone.
This was Jesus' response, "When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more"--John 8:10,11. That is the principle to live by. General religious people are quick to cast stones, but someone that is truly living for God follows God by doing as Christ commanded, which is "Go and sin no more." According to this thread name, God is in front, and that is the way he leads.
Even during the old law, the principle was still right. Adultery is still wrong. If my kids were living at home, and I just turn them over to anyone to be watched, or even to play with, that would be wrong (That adds context to what you quoted.

George Carlin and Josh Becker are not going to tell you that, but everyone reading this has a conscience, and they still know the principles mentioned are right.

As I already mentioned the religions that you quoted will not teach these people these principles which are all taught out of the Bible they teach from. They might say adultery or other sins are wrong, but then they look the other way when a member does it, then preach how someone is going to Hell if someone outside their church does the same thing. The bible is balanced, and so is God. Being balanced also means it's fair for any situation that is faced in life.
This is why an almighty, all perfect God is not in this religious mess. God has order. He also brings stability to the life. The general religious world is the reason Carlin, Becker and many others feel they are licensed to make light of the Bible and make light of God. I'll go as far as to say if what they see in religion is the vision they have of God, then they are entitled to their views.
Still, God is real. He is very real, and not because he made the mountains, seas, animals, etc. He's real because he enacts real change in a life for anyone who will fully except him and take him at his Word. It's a miracle that through the power of God that the following principles can be lived out, when before it was just the opposite:
John 1:12-- "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." Key word is "power". There is no power in being religious, but there is in being a son or daughter of God."
Gal 3:28--" There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Everyone is equal in the sight of God. I read somewhere in this thread that the one is subservient (Words to that effect.).
Matt 5:44--"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you." Religion won't do this for you. Human conception can't, but God gives the power to do it. True love is not how you love your family and friends. Pride, even you know atheists can do that. A est of real love is how you love your enemies adn how you treat those that depsitefully use you and persecute you.
I Cot 1:12-- "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." Whoa! Only God can do this. This, again, is showing the great evil of the general religious world.

The general religious world has trampled God under their feet, and reducing God to a big ZERO, thus creating the atheistic beliefs. More than anything, this is why it is the greatest evil in the world. This is the only sin in the Bible that makes God sick is the lukewarmness created towards him.

One final thought, for now:
"Religion is not here to make anything better, it's only purpose to divide and separate us."
"Religion is the method whereby humans can rationalize their awful behavior to other humans and pawn it off as good deeds."
"Religion is about separation, me and you, them and us, it has nothing to do with living with the rest of humanity in peace. Therefore, religion is the basis of evil."
"Religion is all based on weakness and laziness."
""Religion is the opiate of the masses," and he couldn't have been more correct. Religion is a drug that encourages you to not think for yourself, and, in my very humble opinion, is much worse and far more deadly than heroin, pot, cocaine, and alcohol all put together. None of these other drugs breeds contempt for other people, but all religions do in one way or another. Religion is the insidious evil of our planet, and the sooner people start to wake up to that the sooner we can get on to bigger, more important issues like peace and goodwill toward others."

All these quotes were made by bitter people against God, but everyone of the quotes are spot on. The mistake they made was in equating God with religion.
How can anyone with a conscience justify living a double life that the general religious world promotes? An atheist is wrong for denying such a great and wonderful God, but at least they are who they say they are.

Yes, the thread asks, "If God appears in front...." Someone that truly knows of the reality and knowing his Word and serving him with all their heart knows that God does not appear in front. He is in front and the center of their lives. Again, all I need to do is follow.

I could say much more, but I'll stop.

By Josh Becker: