my options picks intraday/delivery

[DanPickUp]

Dear SG,

I can't even dare to think about trading like you in my wildest dreams...And with my dwindling ledger balance it's also a dream to make 200+ trades(other than scalping):lol:...

Moreover it's sheer bad luck which I had in most of my trades for the last couple of days...I hope none of the traders other than me has lost shorting nifty on Friday where as all my shorts(not once or twice but 4 times) hit stop loss before becoming profitable...Even trying with long also gave the same result...Even my long call and short put which are the positions I'm holding are in loss...

Actually I didn't forget about the call...I put a sell order of 6300 CE on Thursday and checked that the price went above that level but my position remained intact(forgot to check whether the position was squared off or not)...My broker RKGlobal's quotes are surely delayed...I'm saying so because on Friday 6100 CE was trading at 93 when I gave a buy order @ 91.5 which got executed immediately @ 91.3 where as the quotes were showing 92.5 and 91.5 was the 5th best bid price...Though made money in Punj LLoyd future due to this(gave a buy order @ 132.7 when it was trading at 132.8 and it was immediately executed @ 132.4...panicked...gave a sell order @ 132.7 again and it was immediately executed @ 132.8):rofl:...

Hi PGDIMES

As we all know, Savant is a future trader and if you are a pure option trader, you have to make clear differences to his trading style and to yours ( I clearly say : If you are a pure option trader and not a future trader !! Clear about that ? )

Even than : What I miss here in this thread is any clear strategy. I not have seen any clear plan since I watch this thread !

I will give you one small example what I mean with that :

http://www.traderji.com/technical-a...-using-technical-analysis-313.html#post486704

Lock at the chart and then read my comment.

Savant has clear thoughts about any step he is doing in future trading.

Most fellow traders in this thread have clear thought's about hope or it may be is going to happen or I had luck and so on.

Savant never would survive with such ideas ! You as real option trader never can survive with such a mind and I as pure option and hedge trader never could survive with such a mind !

I gave you one little option trading plan with the link. Even if in one of the next post is written : This chart showed up on a very short time. That is no excuse ! ( By the way, the poster is a friend of mine and he is trading a completely other world than I do. Options are not his world as it is not most of yours ! and shares are not my world )

I know the way he trades and he is a pro in shares. So, the post is not relevant to him! It is relevant to real option traders, which have to place there orders in advance by the brokers for such a short time frame. We have to have an option strategy trading plan as Savant has his clear plan by trading futures or he or Raunak have for there share trading s.

That is the only way to trade option for a long time successfully and all what you do is in my mind gambling. I prefer clear option strategy plans.

Take care

DanPickUp

Edit : I am clear that I am incredible demanding with what I say. On the other hand I clearly can say : 12 years collectively only spending time in option trading, study strategies one after one, blowing out accounts, managing to come back to trading again, I know what I talk about.

Option trading is great and very demanding. The knowledge you need to know, is much bigger than in futures. Any way : There is no better or worst, there is only : I hate this derivative or I love it !

At the moment you get over the guessing and hoping part and start to read the right books and get a good teachers, you will feel like what ever you like to feel. Options are not futures and if you know, how to use them in the right way, you will be as king as any future trader !

 

[rrmhatre72]

Dear SG,

I can't even dare to think about trading like you in my wildest dreams...And with my dwindling ledger balance it's also a dream to make 200+ trades(other than scalping):lol:...

Moreover it's sheer bad luck which I had in most of my trades for the last couple of days...I hope none of the traders other than me has lost shorting nifty on Friday where as all my shorts(not once or twice but 4 times) hit stop loss before becoming profitable...Even trying with long also gave the same result...Even my long call and short put which are the positions I'm holding are in loss...

Actually I didn't forget about the call...I put a sell order of 6300 CE on Thursday and checked that the price went above that level but my position remained intact(forgot to check whether the position was squared off or not)...My broker RKGlobal's quotes are surely delayed...I'm saying so because on Friday 6100 CE was trading at 93 when I gave a buy order @ 91.5 which got executed immediately @ 91.3 where as the quotes were showing 92.5 and 91.5 was the 5th best bid price...Though made money in Punj LLoyd future due to this(gave a buy order @ 132.7 when it was trading at 132.8 and it was immediately executed @ 132.4...panicked...gave a sell order @ 132.7 again and it was immediately executed @ 132.8):rofl:...

Hmmmmm.... I think I also experienced this with RKG but never paid so much attention.... Thanks for pointing out....

 

[SavantGarde]

Option Fan,

Forget about my little tirade to PGDIMES...it was just to illustrate that one cannot forget the position one has.....it is a sacrilege.

Whether it was this thread or one of my threads... where you posted some analysis with some comment about market being range bound...to which I had replied....instead of being range bound...one should expect higher volatility in coming sessions....

There is no point trying to dissect your trades.... when we are suddenly struck by winds of change... especially during market session....instead there are Strategies for different market conditions..... for option traders.... first you need to pinpoint whether Higher Volatility which is bearish, Higher Volatility with bullish bias.... Range bound market with bearishness or Range bound market with upward bias.....

When the market moves from one structure to any one of them outlined in the above paragraph.... there is bound to be a bit of pain.... with naked positions...and could take a couple of days for the market structure to be defined correctly....and adopt a strategy that would suit the particular market condition.....

It is equally important to know... what kind of market structure that may follow the present market condition....

Only thing that distinguishes one trader from another.... is how long it takes to define & identify the market structure....hence your quantum of profit/loss is directly proportional to amount of time it takes to identify market condition correctly or wrongly.

As a futures trader...Phases I go through is as follows:

1) Only Longs
2) Pair Trades (if I sniff some change or I am late sniffing.. )
3) Long & Short
4) Proportion of Short increasing compared to Longs
5) Thereafter...with confirmation Only Short....

Happy & Safer Trading

SavantGarde

 

[DanPickUp]

Option Fan,

Forget about my little tirade to PGDIMES...it was just to illustrate that one cannot forget the position one has.....it is a sacrilege.

Whether it was this thread or one of my threads... where you posted some analysis with some comment about market being range bound...to which I had replied....instead of being range bound...one should expect higher volatility in coming sessions....

There is no point trying to dissect your trades.... when we are suddenly struck by winds of change... especially during market session....instead there are Strategies for different market conditions..... for option traders.... first you need to pinpoint whether Higher Volatility which is bearish, Higher Volatility with bullish bias.... Range bound market with bearishness or Range bound market with upward bias.....

When the market moves from one structure to any one of them outlined in the above paragraph.... there is bound to be a bit of pain.... with naked positions...and could take a couple of days for the market structure to be defined correctly....and adopt a strategy that would suit the particular market condition.....

It is equally important to know... what kind of market structure that may follow the present market condition....

Only thing that distinguishes one trader from another.... is how long it takes to define & identify the market structure....hence your quantum of profit/loss is directly proportional to amount of time it takes to identify market condition correctly or wrongly.

As a futures trader...Phases I go through is as follows:

1) Only Longs
2) Pair Trades (if I sniff some change or I am late sniffing.. )
3) Long & Short
4) Proportion of Short increasing compared to Longs
5) Thereafter...with confirmation Only Short....

Happy & Safer Trading

SavantGarde

Hi Savant

"""When the market moves from one structure to any one of them outlined in the above paragraph""" (Which one you mean as I did not see any link to any chart in your post ?)

You and me on option strategy :lol: Hope we never have a fight about that.

Your mind and my ideas. What is your exactly option strategy for this market ?

May you give an idea how to leg in to some option strategies ?

DanPickUp

 

[SavantGarde]

Hi Dan,

Would never like to ever get into debate with you on option strategy....

Remember RAGHUERK....had given him....a trade then in the same post... which would have more than recovered his loss of option trade.

You forget that our option market is not even 10% of the advanced markets.

Knowing how our market moves is more than enough.....

Strategies were not outlined.... because they are popular ones nothing special....just identifying the market structure correctly or the transition... should keep Option Fan in good health....

Charts aren't necessary.... considering we will see some profit booking from second week of November was posted a few months back....what could anybody have analysed from charts....2-3 months ago...but this yet to be confirmed by the market... structure hasn't totally broken down yet

Happy Weekend

SavantGarde

Hi Savant

"""When the market moves from one structure to any one of them outlined in the above paragraph""" (Which one you mean as I did not see any link to any chart in your post ?)

You and me on option strategy :lol: Hope we never have a fight about that.

Your mind and my ideas. What is your exactly option strategy for this market ?

May you give an idea how to leg in to some option strategies ?

DanPickUp

 

[PGDIMES]

Hi Danpickup,

Please find my answers in red. It's great to have your views on any topic and beyond that when it comes to options...

As we all know, Savant is a future trader and if you are a pure option trader, you have to make clear differences to his trading style and to yours ( I clearly say : If you are a pure option trader and not a future trader !! Clear about that ? )

SG is a trader in its truest meaning where as we are lesser mortals trying to learn/unlearn the tricks of the trade...All of us are opportunist but SG trades only in FNO and I trade wherever I think I have the opportunity to make (or may be lose) money...

Even than : What I miss here in this thread is any clear strategy. I not have seen any clear plan since I watch this thread !

I will give you one small example what I mean with that :

http://www.traderji.com/technical-a...-using-technical-analysis-313.html#post486704

Lock at the chart and then read my comment.

Savant has clear thoughts about any step he is doing in future trading.

Most fellow traders in this thread have clear thought's about hope or it may be is going to happen or I had luck and so on.

Savant never would survive with such ideas ! You as real option trader never can survive with such a mind and I as pure option and hedge trader never could survive with such a mind !

I gave you one little option trading plan with the link. Even if in one of the next post is written : This chart showed up on a very short time. That is no excuse ! ( By the way, the poster is a friend of mine and he is trading a completely other world than I do. Options are not his world as it is not most of yours ! and shares are not my world )

I know the way he trades and he is a pro in shares. So, the post is not relevant to him! It is relevant to real option traders, which have to place there orders in advance by the brokers for such a short time frame. We have to have an option strategy trading plan as Savant has his clear plan by trading futures or he or Raunak have for there share trading s.

That is the only way to trade option for a long time successfully and all what you do is gambling on a low level.

Dan, our market is completely different from the markets that you trade...It's highly manipulated and even a single person is enough to mastermind the same...Add to that the FII menace...Moreover option market is in its infancy and I doubt whether it would reach such a stage in the next 5 years to apply the complex strategies that we study in those phoren books...Strategies/trading plans and all those high voltage words are for those who manage a lumpsum amount in their trading portfolio...I only understand that stop loss is the only weapon to keep me in this business for the moment...Moreover with my brokerage scheme I can even scalp the market to remain profitable(though I hate to do it)...

Take care

DanPickUp

Edit : I am clear that I am incredible demanding with what I say. On the other hand I clearly can say : 12 years collectively only spending time in option trading, study strategies one after one, blowing out accounts, managing to come back to trading again, I know what I talk about.

Option trading is great and very demanding. The knowledge you need to know, is much bigger than in futures. Any way : There is no better or worst, there is only : I hate this derivative or I love it !

At the moment you get over the guessing and hoping part and start to read the right books and get a good teachers, you will feel like what ever you like to feel. Options are not futures and if you know, how to use them in the right way, you will be as king as any future trader !

Every person learns(or at least pretends to) from his experience...Most of the great traders had the opportunity to burst at least one trading account before being successful (Mike Marcus did more and 'The God of the pits' almost did it before he retired:rofl...But the only opportunity I had was to study the instruments traded in the market before diving into it and at best less than a year of trading experience in the market...

 

[option fan]

HI DAN sir,
HI FRIENDS,

1st of all sry.. as many of the lines below contains..much of me,my,mine etc..
@ DAN sir,

As u know which of my trades are on (seen u had some recent visits to our naked options thread) and how the things lost their premium resulting into a sizable(big) loss (in profit.. unfortunately it was biggest in last 6 months). I was lucky(?) as earlier this month had some good profit so loosing all the profit and not the capital.. the trades still stands..

now coming to strategy..which is a compulsive need now... i am searching, trying to find & define a suitable styled strategy on following principles.

1. I will not enter in any spread strategy where option writing is needed ( a very clear thing in my mind).
2. I dont want to limit my profit.
3. options trade will be with options only.( no hedging with futures or anything else only options against options.... ).

cosidering all 3 conditions above, which are the limitations to me due to certain reasons.. following things I noticed.. as no options writing is involved and hedging option with option.

1. Time decay risks remains..( if remains range bound)
2. I will have to trade with a bias.. LONG or SHORT.. ( so no assurance of profit...its again same old story.. ITs MARKET !! )
3. Will not be able to exit with small profit if felt its a risky trade and though wind is in my required direction.. will have more breakeven costs.
4. Advantage : there will be Limited loss if any reverse swing come to market !

.. In short will have trade in some 80:20 or 70:30 ratio (?) for and against the direction anticipated...

5. Advantage : will be able to carry the trades for longer period(? doubtfull) .. as our market or individual scrips usualy have some wild swings every month.. so if not profit.. probability remains there to come out with no loss or minimum loss.

I am aware I am thinking much abt hedging... than any options spread strategy..

again @ DAN sir,
now with your experiance, if possible, plz guide us again... if you have seen, applied or thought off... If not option spread strategy.. something like above? and is it practical?
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@SG sir & other friends.. ur opinions plz... WE HAVE TO TRADE OPTIONS !!

 

[option fan]

bought RELIANCE ... 1050 CA @ 21.5 with s/l 1032 on fut for the week.

this position is purely from capital...

 

[option fan]

UNITECH looking good? fut cmp 80.10 s/l 79 TGT=?? for some small profit..

 

[option fan]

bought unitech 85 CA @ 1.2 rs.. no s/l.. thought its better than trading fut with 1 rs s/l