Started Algo Trading - Daily Paper Trade updates

dell

Well-Known Member
Slippage impact trading Nifty

Consider we have 250 trading days in a year.

Nifty lot size : 50

Slippages and Brokerage points deduction: 5 per day

So in a day irrespective of profit/loss, we need to pay = 50*5=Rs.250 as slippages and brokerage considering the algo takes only one trade(buy&sell).

In a year we end up paying Rs.62,500 as slippages n brokerage, which is 1245 points in a year.

Again Symphony algo fee is Rs. 50000 which is another 1000 points.

In order to break even we need to make 1245+1000=2245 points minimum in a year. :down:

This is for just one lot calculation, increasing lot size increases slippages n other costs.

The impact much higher if I opt for Stock futures. As said earlier 80% of my strategy's profit was coming from 20% of trading days(trending days), but remaining 80% trading days are range bound days which would have huge impact because of slippages.

When I was trading this setup manually there was slippages but was still profitable. I did not realize that on a long run I will not be profitable at all trading that system.

I did not realize slippages will have such an impact, only after trading in Symphony simulation environment i realized it.

ahhh.. man... after trying so hard for past couple of months with all dreams that I would start algo from Monday.. finally everything got shattered..

Anyways everything happens for a reason, Good thing is I realized it before I GO LIVE, or else I would have lost lacs and realized it later. I seriously accept my defeat, there is lot more I need to work on.

With all new Hope and strength, will try to do what am good at rather than spending time on finding a system.



Request Mod to kindly close the thread.
Always Remember, Every Successful person was once a struggler ~ So keep trying
sorry to hear , but pleased that u spot it before live session ,
u r a good person , keep trying , u will be suceed in future , don't loose hopes , as it is hope that stay us hungry toward sucess .........
best of luck for future .....:thumb::thumb:
 
Slippage impact trading Nifty

Consider we have 250 trading days in a year.

Nifty lot size : 50

Slippages and Brokerage points deduction: 5 per day

So in a day irrespective of profit/loss, we need to pay = 50*5=Rs.250 as slippages and brokerage considering the algo takes only one trade(buy&sell).

In a year we end up paying Rs.62,500 as slippages n brokerage, which is 1245 points in a year.

Again Symphony algo fee is Rs. 50000 which is another 1000 points.

In order to break even we need to make 1245+1000=2245 points minimum in a year. :down:

This is for just one lot calculation, increasing lot size increases slippages n other costs.

The impact much higher if I opt for Stock futures. As said earlier 80% of my strategy's profit was coming from 20% of trading days(trending days), but remaining 80% trading days are range bound days which would have huge impact because of slippages.

When I was trading this setup manually there was slippages but was still profitable. I did not realize that on a long run I will not be profitable at all trading that system.

I did not realize slippages will have such an impact, only after trading in Symphony simulation environment i realized it.

ahhh.. man... after trying so hard for past couple of months with all dreams that I would start algo from Monday.. finally everything got shattered..

Anyways everything happens for a reason, Good thing is I realized it before I GO LIVE, or else I would have lost lacs and realized it later. I seriously accept my defeat, there is lot more I need to work on.

With all new Hope and strength, will try to do what am good at rather than spending time on finding a system.



Request Mod to kindly close the thread.
You gave a serious try and I am sure you will succeed...you may be very near it. So dont give up. It is not a defeat. You must have gained tremendous insights in systems and HFT and that is a big success.

Remember that if you fall, it is not important. The important thing is whether you get up on your feet after the fall....and you have not lost anything...

Good Luck...

Smart_trade
 

Cubt

Algo Trader
Thanks guys.. It reminds me of Cast Away -Tom Hanks dialogue.

Now I know what I had to do now, gotta keep breathing. Because tomorrow sun will rise, who knows what the tide could bring
 
Hi Cubt,

My advice to reduce slippages would be as follows, as i m also sailing in the same boat.

1) I myself am a fan of intraday trading, but the "more number of trades" and the "trading on a small tf" increase the slippages.
2) Try to increase your time frame as this will also decrease the number of trades and also try to keep positions overnight (these catch the full trend).
3) You said that you would encounter Rs.4000 of slippage everyday, but this would not be so bad as in the flat days you would get filled, so only on half of the days you would be dealing with slippages.
4) Another good practice is: Keep note of all the trades that were not filled on the limit price (i.e slippage), check them over a month period and see what is the win %age of these stocks. If it is >60% then you know that all trades which are not filled at the limit price say for 10 mins have a 60% chance of being a winner. Knowing this fact you can easily with some position sizing logic take out you slippage+profit.

PM me if you have any queries.

Thanks,
Purusharth
 
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Algo

Active Member
Yeah, i have to start with index futures n options but annual returns would be lesser than stock futures. As u said, I shall start with nifty n move to stock futures only when I find a solution to reduce slippages.
Hi Cubt,
Sorry to hear about it, that is the precise reason why i was pushing you to do paper trading first with them. FYI many of my strategies which showed great results in backtesting but when done paper trading showed the real results. I would recommend keep trying and one day who knows. Best of luck!!
 
Hi,


I Still feel there is something wrong in ur analysis,

1) The brokerage part, that we have to live with, wether its auto or manual, reduce the no. of trades as Purusharth

2) Symphony Fee part, i thought that was 37K, this u can think as a premium price u have to pay for auto (3K per month)

3) Last is ur strategy, may be here u can do somthing to increase the hit ratio, but of course this will take some more time and money before it goes live, but still worth it.

Was also waiting for u to go live, as ur paper results were too goood, I am still stuck with multiple issues, first it was data feed, then Amibroker version, now also not all my signals getting mapped to Fuse. They are working on it, once this resolves then my paper trades will start.

Regards
DK
 
Guys!
I had written scripts for Metatrader to trade on EURUSS and GOLD. These are far more reliable than Indian markets. One can apply charts and indicators in a more reliable manner. abnormal changes shall only be due to major international incidences which will known easily. Yet, it was not very impressive. On forex trader, you do not have to pay a single paisa in addition to anyone unlike in India, Exchange and brokerages are trying to milk you for your intellectual property.

Comparatively Indian markets eccentric and charts and indicators will fail more time than it works in an year. So, it is my earnest opinion that stay away from these automatic script based trading.

SEBI as such do not have any idea about what exactly are these trading and how it works in comparison to the manual trading or is trying to make money in the guise of introducing some thing that has been already there all over the world for atleast 10 year now.
 

bpr

Well-Known Member
Guys!
I had written scripts for Metatrader to trade on EURUSS and GOLD. These are far more reliable than Indian markets. One can apply charts and indicators in a more reliable manner. abnormal changes shall only be due to major international incidences which will known easily. Yet, it was not very impressive. On forex trader, you do not have to pay a single paisa in addition to anyone unlike in India, Exchange and brokerages are trying to milk you for your intellectual property.

Comparatively Indian markets eccentric and charts and indicators will fail more time than it works in an year. So, it is my earnest opinion that stay away from these automatic script based trading.

SEBI as such do not have any idea about what exactly are these trading and how it works in comparison to the manual trading or is trying to make money in the guise of introducing some thing that has been already there all over the world for atleast 10 year now.
You don't like Indian market trading platform!!!
you don't like Indian markets!!!
you don't like algo trading !!!
you don't like SEBI !!!

What are you doing here ???:confused:

 

bpr

Well-Known Member
I discussed with Symphony.Also attended their Algo Demo session which they are doing every few days.

for paper trading they asked me ( this is for the presto platform)
Rs 25000 per year
+Rs 15000 one time

For live trading

Rs 37500 per year
+ 15000 one time
+10000 one time

there is so less difference between demo trade and live trading .
I am tempted to try but have to give a lot of time for algo development, significant investment and no guarantee of return.
 
I discussed with Symphony.Also attended their Algo Demo session which they are doing every few days.

for paper trading they asked me ( this is for the presto platform)
Rs 25000 per year
+Rs 15000 one time

For live trading

Rs 37500 per year
+ 15000 one time
+10000 one time

there is so less difference between demo trade and live trading .
I am tempted to try but have to give a lot of time for algo development, significant investment and no guarantee of return.
Hi,
I am doing paper trading with my amibroker based strategy with them. Testing some 5-6 different AFLs given by Rajendran of marketcalls. I am paying just 1000 per month for this. They are offering it on cloud. http://symphonyfintech.wordpress.co...ership-join-the-paper-trading-revolution-now/
 

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