Teach A Man To Fish And.........

[uasish]

Your posts always jolts & strikes conceptually.

 

[lvgandhi]

I really liked "One of the major benefits of getting older is that many of us find that we have less and less to prove." Very nicely said!

 

[shashank]

Whats So Hard About Simplicity?

I often marvel at unnecessary complication. Invariably new traders look for the secrets to success as though they are looking for something that is rare and difficult to find. They believe that by adding additional rules and filters to their trading systems they will improve those systems. Or perhaps a new multi-dimensional quantum oscillator will be much better than the moving average they had been using.

The truth is that lifes hardest questions often have simple answers, but we dont want to believe those simple answers. You will find this theme several places in my book, Way of the Turtle, because it was one of the reasons for the great disparity in results between the various Turtles. The unsuccessful Turtles could not embrace the simplicity of the rules required to make money as a trend follower.

In the chapter Mastering Your Demons, I wrote:

The success of the Turtle experiment has proven that Richard had a set of teachable principles that if followed consistently would result in profitable trading.

The funny thing is that most of the principles that Richard Dennis taught us were not new. Some were basic principles that had been espoused by other famous traders since before Richard was born. Yet the very simplicity of the principles we were taught in some respects was a hindrance for those of us who tried to follow them in those initial months.

People have a tendency to believe that complicated ideas are better than simple ones. Many find it hard to comprehend that Richard Dennis could have made several hundred million dollars by using a handful of simple rules. It is natural to think that he must have had some secret. Many of the Turtles fought that demon during our first few months of trading. Some of us thought that trading successfully couldnt possibly be that simple; that there must be something else to it. This type of thinking obstructed some of the Turtles trading so much that they never were able to follow the straightforward rules Richard had outlined.

My theory is that that belief and the need for complication come from insecurity and the resulting need to find some reason to feel special in some way. Having secret knowledge makes us feel special; possessing simple truths does not. Therefore, our egos drive us to believe that we possess some kind of special knowledge to prove to ourselves that we are somehow superior to others. Our egos dont want us to limit ourselves to commonly known truths. The ego wants secrets.

One of the major benefits of getting older is that many of us find that we have less and less to prove. We become comfortable in our own skin and stop seeking to try to be someone that we are not. This in turn makes it easier to embrace simplicity.

My advice for those who aspire to be great traders: Seek simplicty!

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Something from Curtis Faith from his blog www.wayoftheturtle.com



Happy Trading!
Saint

Thanks Saint!

 

[uasish]

Raja,
This post is indian & nearer to the heart (where Saint resides) of a bengali middle class bloke,.

Asish

 

[ratan jain]

Whooooooooo!

Its hOT! in here!

 

[uasish]

Raja,
What exactly you want .

Asish

 

[ratan jain]

No one asks me what I want

 

[Saint]

Hi,
I just read this thread almost entirely from start to finish.

I find this thread to be an interesting amalgamation of
a) Gann (pivots/swing trading concepts/breakouts/stoplosses)
b) Pring (Trendlines/stochs/rsi divergences/warnings/confirmations)
c) Bullkowski? (Chart patterns, minimal)
d) Elder (multiple tfs? Stoplosses? Risk management?)
e) minimalistic fibonacci retracements? (details in krauz/pesavento/fisher/t3-fibs manuals)
f) assorted (psychological stuff? random tidbits?)

Hi Raja,

Wow,is it?Have read something of Elder somewhere,never read anything from Bulkowski or Gann,and frankly never heard of Krauz,Pesavento,etc etc.......I unfortunately reinvented the wheel,was an idiot in doing so when the knowledge was readily there via books and Net.....

Note to Saint:
Excellent thread.
Not so much for the content since I didn't walk out with any fresh knowledge. 2000% of what is discussed in this thread is already present in my trading systems. If I had come to this site in 2005 or if I hadn't discovered ebooks on emule/4shared, then I am sure I could have learned a lot more from this thread.

Ah,my friend,you read the whole thread but missed post no 1...........this is Primary School for newcomers.This thread is a total waste of time for those who are in Secondary School or higher(marketswise).We have many here,Karthik,Asish,Acatrader,BeginnerAV,Amitt,JDM,Yourself,Oxus,Asnavale,
among others.........shame on you for even reading it,wasting a good night on it, .......and horror of horrors,commenting on it.

I don't mind sharing knowledge or discussing ideas already out there but I am not so open with proprietary systems or code. There are around 250 odd people on my contact lists on yahoo right now. I suspect 200 or so could vouch for me as a walking encyclopedia. Out of those 100 would say that they have learned 50%+ of what they know regarding trading from me.

Clearly these are statistics which cannot possibly compare with the legendary Saint.

Great stuff,my friend........helping another in anyway is vital to us as human beings.Keep up the great work!

Legendary???!!!!Hahahahahahahaha..............that's a good one.If you have to attribute LEGEND status to anyone,well,that would be CreditViolet.He may come down hard on you,but he's a teacher,a great trader.......I have not had the opportunity to meet up with him,but somebody I respect......Looking for somebody surreal,legendary,that would be CV.

I have and always will maintain that I am a Primary 3 kid helping a Primary 1 kid............the names mentioned above ,including yourself,are head and shoulders above,my friend.The respect that I receive from many over at this forum is because many of the rank newcomers to the market over at this forum have got that first step thanks to this thread or something I have written somewhere..........but agreed,something that is not deserved at all.

I am an automation freak. I code everything, I test everything. My background is computers/mathematics. Also you have this calmness around you. I have this excess energy.
I am perhaps more a scientist/entrepreneur than a teacher.
INTP/ENTP(Scientist/Entrepreneur/Trader/Innovator) (anima=ESFJ: Teacher)

Excess energy is good,my friend.....an asset always.Use it well.Channelise it in the right direction,and great success in the markets and in anything else in Life will be yours.

So I don't salute you Saint for the knowledge in the thread, but as a fellow teacher, I salute you for the spirit of teaching and answering questions.

Cheers,
Raja

Thank you for your kind words,my friend.......although I must say that you are too advanced for this thread.

Looking to read more stuff from you over at this forum.

All the best!
Saint

 

[mas]

Hey Saint thank you .....I am new to this site and I agree with you and would like to be the one of them who would love to fish

 

[Saint]

Hi I'm back,

Lets get back to some thought provoking questions:
P.S: Main point in bold at very end. If you wish to skip the intellectual/sarcastic center which may hurt your feelings/sensibilities then u may do so.

nah......think I will go through it all.Am not too much of an intellectual,do not approve of or found the need for sarcasm,and probably feelings and sensibilities would get affected,but what the heck,shall go through them all anyway.

a) This forum has so many intellectuals

Agreed......I don't fall into that group,but agreed.

b) Saint's posts/lectures on trading strategies are so simple; straight out of elementary books by Pring/Elder/Gann.

Yes,more Pring,Murphy,Edwards/magee,a bit of Tharp,probably the old turtles a bit,some from my experience........not too much Elder,no Gann though.No Fibonacci.No Elliot.Simple reason:Cannot understand them.Have always admired those who do though and can make money off it.

c) If Saint's thread is so clearly defined and this forum has such knowledgable people who are eager to learn and teach each other.
How come no one has coded these strategies into trading systems?
After all 90% of the people in these forums use some kind of charting software to trade? Everyone would benefit from the simple ability to scan for trade setups?

Right,once again,my brain doesn't work in codes and programmes.....so can't help you there.

Lets hope some 'Saint' programmer out there gets provoked and decides to take concrete action to make this forum a better place. I am sure if rookies were given
a) techniques for fishing
b) fishing rods
Then they wouldn't be chasing tips from tipsters.
They would be catching their own fish.


How about Jdm/Karthik/CV/Ox/Asish or Saint himself?
Any volunteers for coding this simple project?

Regards,
Raja

hmmm.......totally lost in the woods now.Have pulled quite a bit out of the markets,without any coding or programming.This doctor/trader can't help you on that one,but the knowledgeables in this forum probably could.

Note: I'm sorry if I managed to be rude/sarcastic, insightful, provoking and thoughtful all in one post??

You were hardly rude or sarcastic,my friend.........you seem to take pride in being so,I wonder why.........but you were far from rude or anywhere near sarcastic.Think thoughtful is nearer to the truth.

P.S If I were to present this same statement using the voice of my anima ? i.e feminine side?
ESFJ/Teacher?
I would be a lot gentler. I would say something like.
I implore all the senior members of this forum to improve the sordid state of affairs of this forum.
Why don't we all collaborate to convert the gr8 ideas of our beloved benefactor 'Saint' into code so that we can all benefit!

After this perhaps some applause would follow.
Then I would continue:

I would like to call upon some of our gr8est minds to join hands in converting Saint's fishing techniques into a fishing rod for all beginners.
so that they can learn to fish with skill and feed their loved ones. Bare hand fishing is sooo tough.. ok now I am slipping back into sarcastic mode.

Nah,this doesn't suit you at all..........when you mean to be sarcastic,you were thought provoking,and when you mean to be gentle and teacher-like,you are sarcastic.The previous mode suits you better...

Come on people lighten up!
Atleast smile!!

Smiling all the way,my friend.....

See an INTP/ENTP only acquires the skills/self restraint of an ESFJ after significant time/psychological development has taken place. That might take a while: I'm only 26.5.
From a theoretical perspective (MBTI/Carl jung etc) such balance would only be achieved after age 40-50 or earlier if I was around my anima for extended durations.
Note: Since I am the quarrelsome type my gfs/ultimate wife would have to be a more peaceful type

P.S : ESFJs can have scathing sarcasm when they do choose to unleash it.
Within every person lies his/her own opposite... Yin/Yang.
Was there a point to this detour? Maybe Maybe not??
Only those who have the context will get it.

Others can safely ignore and focus on the main point.

Interesting.....

We have free fishing techniques why not also post the associated free fishing rod
If anyone wishes to address just one point.
Please address the point in bold instead of branching off. This is a concrete step which will add 5 more stars to this forum.Talk is cheap. Lets see some action!!!!

P.S : Asish I hope I didn't disappoint you again. I had already posted this lengthy post prior to reading your comments. So anyway I did my best to keep the main point in bold, atleast this way everyone elses energies will not be wasted. I talk too much and yes I do not channel my energies productively. Thats a skill that I really need to acquire. Will take me a while.
Sorry.

Great going,my friend.............the paragraph in bold once again tells so much.Nice....

All the best!
Saint