Trading Nifty

[Sriks]

Hi Gaurav

You had earlier spoken of short term traders and long term ones. What exactly do you mean by that? What is YOUR understanding of timeframes? My discussions are likely to be generic and as such, if these do not fit into this thread, would be glad to get into another.

Rgds

 

[rkkarnani]

Dear Friends,

Nifty future has hit 4504 so far.

Our position is as follows

Booked profit 12000/-

M to M loss 1300/-

I am considering that the nifty has been sold off at 4504 so my positions are closed as of now.

net we are in profit of Rs. 10700/- over an initial investment of Rs. 75000/-.

The returns were made in a falling market and are about 15 % in just 15 days. I am sure you will agree that the returns are very good and had it been a rising market could have been better.

With RKKarnani having endorsed it finally, i have met my objective.....

i am now closing the thread.... It is rather difficult for me to spend time writing on the thread.

I shall be available for another two days in which i shall response to questions..


With best wishes,

Gaurav Kumar

Well friend, thanks for giving so much importance to a nobody like me. Happy to see your way of trading to succeed, its besides the point that I may not trade the same though on papaer trades it did show a positive return.
I may be senior to you in age but quiet junior as far as Stock Market expirience or TA knowledge is concerned. So just take what i am about to write as a view of a novice.
"The main drawback i find in your system is that it has lot of subjectivity involved leaving a lot of decisions on emotions."
Pray that not only did you exit Nifty here for analysis sake but your actual holding too...... there is blood in US markets and Mumbai mau follow suit.
Regards and all the best.
-R.K.Karnani

 

[Gaurav Kumar]

Well friend, thanks for giving so much importance to a nobody like me. Happy to see your way of trading to succeed, its besides the point that I may not trade the same though on papaer trades it did show a positive return.
I may be senior to you in age but quiet junior as far as Stock Market expirience or TA knowledge is concerned. So just take what i am about to write as a view of a novice.
"The main drawback i find in your system is that it has lot of subjectivity involved leaving a lot of decisions on emotions."
Pray that not only did you exit Nifty here for analysis sake but your actual holding too...... there is blood in US markets and Mumbai mau follow suit.
Regards and all the best.
-R.K.Karnani

Dear RK Karnani,

I exited for the sake of closure of the thread ... agreed.... but if you read my previous post, i have hedged a lot expecting a blood bath.. Also rEad i told yesterday itself that the fall today would be big.... so i am prepared....my short positions far exceed the long positions...

I AM AS RELAXED AS BEFORE....

Last if you are indeed senior in age, please let your posts show that maturity... You seem to read only part of what i write and pick out what is convienient to you (sorry but that is the impression i get)...

By the way how old are you?

With best wishes as always,

Gaurav Kumar

 

[Gaurav Kumar]

Hi Gaurav

You had earlier spoken of short term traders and long term ones. What exactly do you mean by that? What is YOUR understanding of timeframes? My discussions are likely to be generic and as such, if these do not fit into this thread, would be glad to get into another.

Rgds

Sriks,

Your question is good and very valid...

In my view there are various types of traders...i would not classify them with respect to time frames, rather i would classify them with respect to MINDSET....It is the mindset that decides the time frame

1. The first kind are the one who react to even the slightest of moves and take positions accordingly. These people playu for a few points gain, and therefore require a strict SL.
2. Thern come the investors to basically invest into a business (as one of the posts rightly said about them).
3. I will catagories myself into the third catagory.... I am so as to say not interested in Time frames, not interested in stocks... What interests me is money. For me it is money management that is important. So if i get huge returns in 5 minutes (accidently of course), why should i not take advantage of it.. for eg,, today i am going to make big money in the 5 minutes because i had understood the problem yesterday and taken positions accordingly... So when the market opens weak, i shall get to book partial profits. And at the same time i shall change the nature of short positions to take advantage of further falls.....At other times, i may invest into a stock knowing that it is to go up (say 50%), but it will take 6 months to do so. In that case i will patiently wait for 6 months. So my ineterst is money, not time frames....
With best wishes,

Gaurav Kumar

 

[rkkarnani]

Dear RK Karnani,

I exited for the sake of closure of the thread ... agreed.... but if you read my previous post, i have hedged a lot expecting a blood bath.. Also rEad i told yesterday itself that the fall today would be big.... so i am prepared....my short positions far exceed the long positions...

I AM AS RELAXED AS BEFORE....

Last if you are indeed senior in age, please let your posts show that maturity... You seem to read only part of what i write and pick out what is convienient to you (sorry but that is the impression i get)...

By the way how old are you?

With best wishes as always,

Gaurav Kumar

I will not dispute your impression, but the truth is that never had the intention to choose part of your posts to 'pick on you'. If it happened it was inadverent and could have happened due to my focus on finding loopholes in a theory that did not envisge STOP LOSS which to my style of trading is GOD.
I am happy that you are in short position.
My pointing out that you exited for the sake of this thread was not intended to be sarcastic, it was a genuine concern that you also exited longs in actual trades too.
I am 56+......

 

[Gaurav Kumar]

I will not dispute your impression, but the truth is that never had the intention to choose part of your posts to 'pick on you'. If it happened it was inadverent and could have happened due to my focus on finding loopholes in a theory that did not envisge STOP LOSS which to my style of trading is GOD.
I am happy that you are in short position.
My pointing out that you exited for the sake of this thread was not intended to be sarcastic, it was a genuine concern that you also exited longs in actual trades too.
I am 56+......

Dear Shri RKKarnani,

First of all my apologies to you. I was not aware that you are 19 years older to me... I took you to be somebody in his 20s.... Must say you have that kind of enthusiam...I believe that one must respect the elders even though one may choose to disagree. So kindly forgive me.

I thank you for your concern. I am, as always, well protected. In fact i had heavy short positions consiting of various options and short futures which i covered at market opening, making a decent profit and am waiting for the market to recover (it has recovered 50 points and will recover further, before i short again)......


Let me explain one thing to you... Yesterday i got the news of the BNP paribas problem... I am not a reactive person as you may have seen from my posts. So i simply hedged and decided to wait till i was able to access the impact... towards the close i was sure that the impact would be heavy, so i shorted more.....the shorts were such that in case the bank issued a statement that there was no problem or say if the US fed stepped in to reduce the interest rates, in order to control the subprime problem, i would not loose in case the market bounced... in effect the hedge would make good money if the market fell and would loose little if the market recovered.

Overnight i calculated the worst case scenario and how i would deal with it. So in the morning when the market opened, i knew exactly what to do as i had no decision to make (all alternative movements of the market had been worked out at night itself, so accordingly the plan was had to be executed)..

I am sure you will agree that decisions made in a hurry are not well thought off (forget the markets, focus on daily routines and then draw a parallel with the markets)... That is what i believe...

I give the markets the same importance as important decisions in life....Pardon me for this anology, but you do not marry with a Stop loss in place do you? You do not take up a job with a stop loss in position.. You do not send your son to school with a stop loss in place... These decisions are well thought off, not taken at the spur of the moment... So why should market decisions be taken at the spur of the moment?

All above decisions in life can go wrong... So you take steps (again well thought off ) to mitigate the damage and keep ypurself afloat eg.. you do not Divorce in a spur of the moment thought (and if somebody does divorce in a spur of the moment, then that person must not have self control).....

Same with stock markets....Why do people treat markets so casually? I myself have been guilty of spur of the moment decisions in the past, but no more....

Finally, may i correct you sir.. Please do not treat SL as god... treat money as God.... Respect money and it will respect you... after all money is Goddess Lakshmi...and i think nobody should know this better than you (your name suggests you are a Sindhi and Sindhis are amongst the best businessmen)...

With due regards to you,,

Gaurav Kumar

 

[rkkarnani]

Sir, There was no need to apologise. As I said I am quiet junior to you as far as Stock mkt is concerned.
As far as SL is concerned your anology: "Pardon me for this anology, but you do not marry with a Stop loss in place do you? You do not take up a job with a stop loss in position.. You do not send your son to school with a stop loss in place... These decisions are well thought off, not taken at the spur of the moment... So why should market decisions be taken at the spur of the moment?" The comparisons are not worth considering at all. This reminds me of an ad of a Peppermint which was to counter the brand POLO, it read : "IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A HOLE IN YOUR BRAIN WHY SHOULD YOU HAVE HOLE IN YOUR MINT".
Jokes apart, SL is money for me, and pardon me I made more money with my usual trading nifty with SL than the paper trade i did with your system. THOUGH LET ME ACCEPT THAT I WAS VERY SURE THAT YOUR SYSTEM WOULD FAIL WHEN YOUR FIRST POST APPEARED. You did proove me and others wrong. But again the question comes of consistancy of returns. Moreover after a few posts of yours I did realise that you also have a SL and that is in the form of a HEDGE POSITION. We have different methodology as you had in some post argued in similar line and at that time it did not appeal to me because I was totally focussed that trades without SL are simply NO NO NO NO!!!!!!! People who trade with SL do not take mkt casually, they respect the price movement. For people like me who trade on the basis of SL the price movement tells all that is there to know about the stock the operators the management. The price movement is supreme. We do not care how the operators move the market. Our risk reward is in our favour with proper money management and SL we consistantly gain. Due to SL we loose some we save some but as the odds are in our favour we over a period post a positive result. The most important ingredient in our trade is DISCIPLINE.
Anybody and everybody respects money, but where does the comparision comes about it vis a vis a SL. SL is there becoz I respect my money and am not ready to loose beyond a certain limit.
BTW I am a Marwari not Sindhi and have a very good business background. And this background has helped me take the stock mkt. also as a proper biz. and not a gambling arena.
Nice to have interacted with you.
All the best young man for a bright healthy and prosperous future.
Regards.
-R.K.Karnani

 

[Gaurav Kumar]

Sir, There was no need to apologise. As I said I am quiet junior to you as far as Stock mkt is concerned.
As far as SL is concerned your anology: "Pardon me for this anology, but you do not marry with a Stop loss in place do you? You do not take up a job with a stop loss in position.. You do not send your son to school with a stop loss in place... These decisions are well thought off, not taken at the spur of the moment... So why should market decisions be taken at the spur of the moment?" The comparisons are not worth considering at all. This reminds me of an ad of a Peppermint which was to counter the brand POLO, it read : "IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A HOLE IN YOUR BRAIN WHY SHOULD YOU HAVE HOLE IN YOUR MINT".
Jokes apart, SL is money for me, and pardon me I made more money with my usual trading nifty with SL than the paper trade i did with your system. THOUGH LET ME ACCEPT THAT I WAS VERY SURE THAT YOUR SYSTEM WOULD FAIL WHEN YOUR FIRST POST APPEARED. You did proove me and others wrong. But again the question comes of consistancy of returns. Moreover after a few posts of yours I did realise that you also have a SL and that is in the form of a HEDGE POSITION. We have different methodology as you had in some post argued in similar line and at that time it did not appeal to me because I was totally focussed that trades without SL are simply NO NO NO NO!!!!!!! People who trade with SL do not take mkt casually, they respect the price movement. For people like me who trade on the basis of SL the price movement tells all that is there to know about the stock the operators the management. The price movement is supreme. We do not care how the operators move the market. Our risk reward is in our favour with proper money management and SL we consistantly gain. Due to SL we loose some we save some but as the odds are in our favour we over a period post a positive result. The most important ingredient in our trade is DISCIPLINE.
Anybody and everybody respects money, but where does the comparision comes about it vis a vis a SL. SL is there becoz I respect my money and am not ready to loose beyond a certain limit.
BTW I am a Marwari not Sindhi and have a very good business background. And this background has helped me take the stock mkt. also as a proper biz. and not a gambling arena.
Nice to have interacted with you.
All the best young man for a bright healthy and prosperous future.
Regards.
-R.K.Karnani

Dear Sir,

As long as you make money, no arguements from my side on that... Your very acknowledgement that i proved you wrong is good enough for me...

As i have said in the past that the person who makes money is the king. Obviously with your good business acumen, you are perhaps better placed to make money, even from stock markets, as compared to others...

SLs do not work for me... i tried them is the past.. perhaps i do not have the business acumen (considering that for last 4 generations we have not been in business)... So my method is more suited to my style and gives me less tension.. for me it is equally important that i should not be tense and this is how it works for me...

Would love to meet you one day...By the way i am based at Gurgaon...

With regards,

Gaurav Kumar

 

[rkkarnani]

I am in Kolkata. SL may not have worked for you but you were smart enough to device a strategy of HEDGING, which is as good as a SL.
I had been to Gurgaon, a friend of mine lives there. Well the environ there is totally alien to a person living in Kolkata. The high rises and all are simply fabulous.
SL do not require business acumen, trading does. I base my trades on some TA based calls I get and all of them have to meet my parameters before I trade them. I also trade calls generated as per my parameters but are lesser in number. In brief period that I have been here in stock mkt. I consider DISCIPLINE as the most vital ingredient, be it SL based trade or a trade with hedging mechanism.
World is a muchsmaller place now, hope we get a chance to meet.
Regards.
-R.K.Karnani

 

[uasish]

R.K.Karnani,
Nice to hear that you are from Kolkata that also of my age would love to interact with you in person if possible some day.

Asish