Upstox - RKSV - Trade in Rs 20 Max

[lakshay]

market order is most basic type of order everywhere
to stop few trader who use all the balance in their account to trade , many other traders will be affected(who want to get out or get in at market, rather then deciding limit for order in panic situations).

instead you should allow 95- 97% or some x% of balance to be applicable for use as trade margins.

 

[DataRam]

Hey guys,

It was deactivated because of the nature market order risk is being calculated and we had several clients get into tricky situations where they and us lot some money.

Here's the scenario: say you want to buy 100 shares of some stock and it's current price is Rs. 1000. However, on the first level, there is only 20 quantity shown while the other 80 are in the second level priced at Rs. 1,100 (for example's sake). NSE RMS calculates your total required margin before placing the order as Rs. 1000 * 100 = Rs. 1,00,000. As long as you have 1 lakh in your balance, it will go through. Now, when the order goes through and gets hit, the true value of the order is realized as Rs. 1,08,000. This can trigger margin limit checks and sometimes MtoM checks depending on how bad/shallow the book is.

This happened to many of our clients this year when they placed trades on fairly liquid stocks but just when there was big discrepancy in the level pricing for the quantity they want. The result is that the client is in shock and we are scrambling to help them recoup the losses.

Now, if you want to place a market order, what you can do is place a limit order with just a higher price. In the above scenario, if you placed a limit order for qty 100 with a price of Rs. 1,100, the RMS knows exactly how much to limit your risk by and it gets executed promptly.

We have faced this problem throughout the year. Our understanding is that there are other big brokers that disable market orders completely for the same reason. Some clients even support that measure because it's safer for them. For now, since NSE NOW RMS behaves like this, we have taken this measure.

Eager to hear your thoughts.

I agree with your views to quite an extent .

At the same time while trading in NIFTY I feel the need of Market Order quite a lot. Placing Limit orders is cumbersome . :lol:

 

[sunilrhs]

I truly agree with RKSV here and I have had same bad experience sometimes back. Since then always put the limit order for any trade.

IMHO the good or sensible trader never puts the market order as they know what they are doing and at what price they have to enter and exit. Just my opinion and dont know about others.

Gud work RKSV.

Hey guys,

It was deactivated because of the nature market order risk is being calculated and we had several clients get into tricky situations where they and us lot some money.

Here's the scenario: say you want to buy 100 shares of some stock and it's current price is Rs. 1000. However, on the first level, there is only 20 quantity shown while the other 80 are in the second level priced at Rs. 1,100 (for example's sake). NSE RMS calculates your total required margin before placing the order as Rs. 1000 * 100 = Rs. 1,00,000. As long as you have 1 lakh in your balance, it will go through. Now, when the order goes through and gets hit, the true value of the order is realized as Rs. 1,08,000. This can trigger margin limit checks and sometimes MtoM checks depending on how bad/shallow the book is.

This happened to many of our clients this year when they placed trades on fairly liquid stocks but just when there was big discrepancy in the level pricing for the quantity they want. The result is that the client is in shock and we are scrambling to help them recoup the losses.

Now, if you want to place a market order, what you can do is place a limit order with just a higher price. In the above scenario, if you placed a limit order for qty 100 with a price of Rs. 1,100, the RMS knows exactly how much to limit your risk by and it gets executed promptly.

We have faced this problem throughout the year. Our understanding is that there are other big brokers that disable market orders completely for the same reason. Some clients even support that measure because it's safer for them. For now, since NSE NOW RMS behaves like this, we have taken this measure.

Eager to hear your thoughts.

 

[RKSV]

Hi RKSV

Is it possible to place SL and limit order with out blocking margin twice if you are already holding a position.

Example:

Bought NF at 6000

Now i want to put a Limit Sell order for 6015

and simultaneously i want to put a SL order at 5985.

I will cancel one order when ever other order gets executed.

Thanks

Hi neuron_sun,

This is similar to how an OCO (one cancels other) order works. NSE doesn't recognize this and won't block margin accordingly. Probably, once we migrate out, we can try to offer functionality similar to this.

 

[RKSV]

Thats does not make any sense from trader's perspective.Market and SL-M are so handy when one wants get out of market quickly. You are losing edge over your competitior.You should find better ways to handle your RMS rather than banning these orders.

Hi km,

Yeah the advantage of market order comes when closing out your positions and not when opening fresh positions. NOW and I don't believe NEST either offer this functionality. Will speak to the exchange/Omnesys about the same.

 

[RKSV]

market order is most basic type of order everywhere
to stop few trader who use all the balance in their account to trade , many other traders will be affected(who want to get out or get in at market, rather then deciding limit for order in panic situations).

instead you should allow 95- 97% or some x% of balance to be applicable for use as trade margins.

Yes these are all valid scenarios and we were thinking the same -- but the RMS software isn't advanced enough to handle all this. Another thing is that you only get 5 levels of depth of data with the NSE. Now, what if your quantity exceeds the total amount of quantity shown on the top 5 levels? Then RMS becomes even trickier to calculate.

Ultimately, it should differentiate between fresh positions and square off positions. That's the issue here.

 

[Creep]

Hi km,

Yeah the advantage of market order comes when closing out your positions and not when opening fresh positions. NOW and I don't believe NEST either offer this functionality. Will speak to the exchange/Omnesys about the same.

Are you serious?? Advantage of market order comes when closing out and not when opening fresh positions?? ..Guess you are an investor and not a trader....

Wait for the day when market gets volatile and let us see how many of your clients will be able to use limit orders to enter or exit..

best of luck to everyone!!!

Ooops I forgot, you don't want them to trade anyways, you have already charged the brokerage upfront.. ..

 

[neuron_sun]

Hi RKSV

Is this disable done for all brokers using NOW platform or is it just RKSV?

Thanks

Are you serious?? Advantage of market order comes when closing out and not when opening fresh positions?? ..Guess you are an investor and not a trader....

Wait for the day when market gets volatile and let us see how many of your clients will be able to use limit orders to enter or exit..

best of luck to everyone!!!

Ooops I forgot, you don't want them to trade anyways, you have already charged the brokerage upfront.. ..

 

[RKSV]

Hi RKSV

Is this disable done for all brokers using NOW platform or is it just RKSV?

Thanks

No, just us. Not all brokers on NSE NOW. We cannot specify which instances to keep it on for and which to keep it off for on NOW. We found that many brokers who use Odin disable market orders straightaway.

 

[soft_trader]

Hi neuron_sun,

This is similar to how an OCO (one cancels other) order works. NSE doesn't recognize this and won't block margin accordingly. Probably, once we migrate out, we can try to offer functionality similar to this.

Zerodha, RKG, and many other brokers is already offering facility of manual bracket order since years, without blocking additional margin. First look then claim.

Sharekhan even provides OCO orders in cash segments