Zerodha Part 2

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poortrader

Well-Known Member
Hi Fellow Traders,
Has anyone used the quant pair trading & swing trading offered through nest plus by percentage play?
Also Indian Volatility is offering options strategies through nest plus, anyone has experience of this service?

@zerodha, in 2 leg straddle strategies, where we buy call and put of same expiry and strike price, will there be margin benefits?
 

msa5678

Well-Known Member
Hi Fellow Traders,
Has anyone used the quant pair trading & swing trading offered through nest plus by percentage play?
Also Indian Volatility is offering options strategies through nest plus, anyone has experience of this service?

@zerodha, in 2 leg straddle strategies, where we buy call and put of same expiry and strike price, will there be margin benefits?
Was about to post query on the same topic and saw this post. Anyway, I will post my query with an example.

Dear Zerodha,

I want to place a spread order entry something like this:
a)Long LT-JAN-1600-CE 1 Lot Around 80
b)Short LT-JAN-1650-CE 1 Lot Around 48

My Query is, whether I will be getting any margin benefits because of the spread OR Do I have to pay the normal margin around 50K ?

Regards
 
There is not enough posted on charges and discussed...when faced with this question you just give a different twist to the discussion instead of replying in a straightforward manner...when Investmentz raises the question you start discussing his trading volumes...when I raised the same question..you chose to ignore it and once again let me state the facts..

Bezel:in futures;Rs. 250/crore
Smarttradeonline:Rs. 240/crore
RSKV:Rs. 230/crore
Zerodha;Rs. 490/crore

Can you state as to how is the question about stamp duty is relevant to the issue at hand? Do not skirt the issue...

and once again...According to all the knowledge I have been able to gather Transaction charges are statutory in nature...only discretion a broker has is brokerage...so you can not and should not charge anything which is in excess of Transaction charges as specified by NSE plus clearing charges you pay...

And of course no one including Zerodha can run the business in the way they deem fit...You have to run business complying with the rules and under Regulatory Purview,...If you are under an impression that under the heading Transaction Charges you can charge anything ..you are grossly mistaken...you will have to justify your Transaction Charges ..and all the discount brokers mentioned above..none of them are clearing members I guess..Taking up this matter with SEBI...NSE...and Ministry of Corporate Affairs to put the records straight..so that you can be legally told as to whether you can under the heading Transaction charges...charge more than the permissible limits..and you will have the answers soon..please do not worry about this....

Regards and once again requesting you to charge under Transaction Charges what is reasonable and not what you think will help you in running your Business...Broking as a business is based on Brokerage..and Transaction Charges are not supposed to be Profit Generating Methodology....

And Believe me very soon you will have your answers written in a distict circular either bt SEBI/NSE.Have faith in the genuineness of my effort to take this matter to its logical conclusion:thumb:
tried to find a brokerage calculator on Bezel website - not available.

So I compared the online brokerage calculator outputs for the following 3:-
Zerodha(Rs. 20 per trade), RKSV (dream trade scheme) & Smarttrade(Rs. 15 per trade) online.

I find that smarttrade has not included stampduty so his total costs are slightly misleading.

I find that transaction charges for RKSV & Smarttrade are almost the same. Zerodha is higher. This is around 10% more for options & 100% for futures.

If one considers total costs Zerodha & RKSV are tied almost neck to neck. For large lots of Options there is no difference (10 rs. for 100 options & 0.9 rs. for 1000 options buy/sell 66/70).

For futures Zerodha is cheaper for small lots & slightly costlier for larger lots. ( Future buy & sell @6000/6020. For 100 Zerodha cheaper by 0.5Rs. For 1000 Zerodha costlier by Rs. 99.11)

Benefits - we get Zerodha trader & soon HTML5 platform. Also I am sure Zerodha will do something about their transaction costs. So let us not jump ship in haste.
 
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poortrader

Well-Known Member
Hi Sri,

Have you compared with composite edge, they charge 15 Rs per lot after you do around 50 trades
tried to find a brokerage calculator on Bezel website - not available.

So I compared the online brokerage calculator outputs for the following 3:-
Zerodha, RKSV & Smarttrade online.

I find that smarttrade has not included stampduty so his total costs are slightly misleading.

I find that transaction charges for RKSV & Smarttrade are almost the same. Zerodha is higher. This is around 10% more for options & 100% for futures.

If one considers total costs Zerodha & RKSV are tied almost neck to neck. For large lots of Options there is no difference (10 rs. for 100 options & 0.9 rs. for 1000 options buy/sell 66/70).

For futures Zerodha is cheaper for small lots & slightly costlier for larger lots. ( Future buy & sell @6000/6020. For 100 Zerodha cheaper by 0.5Rs. For 1000 Zerodha costlier by Rs. 99.11)

Benefits - we get Zerodha trader & soon HTML5 platform. Also I am sure Zerodha will do something about their transaction costs. So let us not jump ship in haste.
 
I transfered some money thru' ZT "Pay_IN". All authentication went thru and in final step wherethe payment gateway updates the ZT, it displayed msg that transaction failed. But money was gone from Bank account. Did anyone face this issue previously? If so how to resolve this?
 

comm4300

Well-Known Member
I transfered some money thru' ZT "Pay_IN". All authentication went thru and in final step wherethe payment gateway updates the ZT, it displayed msg that transaction failed. But money was gone from Bank account. Did anyone face this issue previously? If so how to resolve this?
Yes. Did happen to me.

Take screenshot of your online bank statement where debit is shown and email it across to [email protected]

They'll do the needful.
 
Before people jump into any conclusion about as to why I have been so critical of Zerodha and my tone and tenure can definitely offend anyone (including Zerodha)..My sincere apologies to Zerodha If my writing has hurt themand as I can be hurt definitely even Zerodha can be hurtIts not about settling scores with anyone..no one is here to settle scores..we are not enemies or adversaries..Most of us in the Traderji Forum are simple traders ..trying to make attempts to become a profitable traderthats itIn my last post I had written that I will write some good things about Zerodhaso that Zerodha does not have a feeling that I am here with some ulterior motives..

New to this world of Trading I agree that I may have written something which may be factually incorrectbut even being new to trading I have taken pains to understand the Trading Business..

Let me write something about quite a few noticeable brilliance of NEST TRADER (Zerodha refers it as Zerodha Trader)..Having seen both NSE NOW as well as Zerodha TraderI can give a logical analogy..Both of them are the best trading platform available to the trading community as of today..and I am not writing this based on some assumptionsrather I do have exposure to most of the trading platforms which are available in the market todaybe it Power India Bulls of Indiabulls/Indiainfoline/Kotak (Keat Pro I guess)/Sharekhan/Motilal Oswal/ICICI Direct etcThe set of Brokers I have referred above..all of them have their own Trading Platforms..and none of them come close to the performance of NSE NOW/Zerodha Trader.I repeat there is a big differenceThe rates refresh fastest in both these platforms compared to anyone of the so called established Brokers or what some people may call as reputed BrokersExtremely sorry to say.. all these established Brokers are miles behind NSE-Now or Zerodha Traderin terms of speed of execution as well as the real-time quotes being refreshed So Zerodha not only heralded a revolution in the Broking Industry by giving the most competitive rates but also delighted us by giving a platform (initially NSE-NOW and now Zerodha Trader)So Zerodhas forward march can not be attributed only to the superior brokerage offeringbut also to a superior trading platform

Now next comes the reliability of Trading PlatformsNSE-NOW and Zerodha Trader both of them have a distinct advantage here alsoAt the same time being a Technology Based offering..even NSE-NOW as well as ZT a few times have given some anxious times to the people trading with them..and they can not be faulted here..because any technology can not be 100% perfectand why I write this ..because another important aspect is lost when people like me start blaming Zerodha for any issue arising out of some technological Gltches..which can happen with any Trading Platformand this can be understood by the entire trading community who had the privilege of trading with any of the so called established or reputed broking firmsThe reality is that the amount of issue generally people face with all the Big names in the industry is nowhere close to a bit of inconvenience one may have with NSE-NOW or ZTso again even in the terms of reliability of a trading platformZerodha scores and I reckon every entity which has been using NSE-NOW..they also have a distinct advantage here
Now coming to what Zerodha Trader has on offerAs far as ratesrefreshment of rates and order execution is concerned there is no difference..but there is quite a few features available in ZT which I reckon is unparallelmay be Interactive Brokers would be somewhat close to it in this..but since I do not have any exposure to itI can not comment..still IB is an Internationally renowned Broker..so its imperative that they may also have features which Indian brokers generally do not haveHere again what Zerodha has done is immensely commendableand no one comes close to it

One of the features like cover order is distinctly superior to what any other Broking firms provide..leverage is a double edged sword ..at the same timeif someone is good in this art Zerodha again has the Best offeringof course it can always be debated whether this leverage is good or not..at the same time..the leverage which is on offer due to Cover Order facility is among the best in the industry I appreciate this endeavour of Zerodha which is definitely a boon for professional traders..of course not for novices like mestill they have something which is not available with majorityIf one wants one can use it..if one does not want one is free not to use it

Recently they have tied up with Global Data feeds and Amibroker ..and one can shoot orders directly from Amibroker ..This is definitely a class act..at least for professional traders who understand the dynamics of this trading businessand again none of the Reputed or established Brokers provide this world class innovation or Technological Superiority which Zerodha has demonstrated in its quest to delight us with superior product and superior Technology

With time I am sure they will also be able to enable Bracket orders..another world class act..and going by the different features available with Nest Trader like Trigger Buy price or Trigger sell price..about which I am not sure whether they are enabled at present or notand I am sure all these features will be available very shortly..
Consider another advantage of Nest Trader or Zerodha Trader..I will give an example by comparing it with Keat of Kotakif one wants to know how much one is ahead or behind in the race..one needs to go to another menu..and then quotes are not visible..with ZT Quotes are available along with Admin Position as well as Order details and its on the same screen..I consider it another innovation which is a class apart..No need to go to any other menu..on a single screen everything is available..

I would be doing a disservice to Zerodha if they consider me as someone who has been troubling them.No not at allBecause I very well understand the importance of superior Technological platform which Zerodha has providedI have earlier also written I LOVE YOU LIKE I HATE YOU AND I HATE YOU LIKE I LOVE YOUand You have actually delighted the trader community with you Technologically Superior offerings and gone a step ahead by coming up with Nest Trader which is If you take my opinion a class apart from NSE NOW also..which also I recommend highly because it is superior to majority of the offerings in the market

Boss I am a novice..trying to get a feel of this trading world..aiming high..whether I succeed or fail is another matter..I have written this just to tell you that I am actually in awe of Zerodhaand my writing a few things should not be taken otherwise that it is with may be some ulterior motives..no not at all..Definitely new to this Trading world but wise enough to see the superiority of your Technology and the innovation Zerodha has been constantly making in their effort to delight usWorld class offering at such a low cost is still acceptable to me ..and Zerodha has excelled in every Dept. .I have talked in such a rude manner to its customer care..and the way these people handled me..It ended with me apologising for my rude behaviour..How I can forget these sweet gestures by the team of Zerodha..I may have some opinion on somethingat the same time it does not mean I have anything against Zerodha..NO..not at all.

I have written this lest I may be misunderstood as someone bent upon breaking the harmony prevalent in this groupZerodha you have delighted us with your superior offerings..YE DIL MAANGE MOREthis is my only faultnothing else..at the same time I see things in totalitynot with coloured framesOverall Zerodha does have a value proposition difficult to be matched by anyone..Hope it clarifies to an extent what my unnecessary barbs may have generated in the minds of a few..I am a novice trader..trying to make two ends meet..at the same time trying to be successful in my endeavour..thats it..nothing beyond this

Regards and Happy Trading..NJOY EVERYBODY:thumb::clap:
Two rather contradictory statements from you. (highlighted in bold by me)

Let me give u some perspective from someone who has been in the market for 29 years. The most important point you need to look for is safety of your money. Previously there used to be repeated cases of brokers going belly up, ur share transfer forms becoming time barred, documents lost in transit, duplicate share certificates etc.

Nowadays NSE's systems have put an end to all of these. So you need to look at what platform & broker suits you the best. Look at the costs & do your P&L break-evens.
The market is dynamic & there will be rate fluctuations across players all the time. What is important is the Total Cost of Operations.
Eg. We had 4 family accounts with ICICISec. Highest charges, but my wife is very comfortable with the software & prefers to trade in these a/cs. As long as we are getting our overall profits I am more than willing to pay the additional brokerage for her convenience.
We had, at the peak, 11 trading accounts spread across various brokerages. Main intention was to minimise exposure risk. Also as far as banks are concerned we would get additional benefits for maintaining these accounts & so extra brokerage was a cost incurred for risk mitigation & other benefits.

Even today we have more than 1 demat a/c per person so that holdings are spread out across brokers & we are protected from system collapses at their end. However NSDL/NSE collapse is something I cannot hedge against:mad:

Zerodha was the first to introduce discount brokerages. Now the most important thing is the "system" that they are putting in place. Only now have we been able to make profits in F&O trading. (we tried off & on ever since it was introduced).
My other banks keep after me for getting derivatives trading thru them but I flatly refuse as i do not want to re-learn another platform.
I will not jump brokers for some new scheme that offers lower charges ( most of these are introductory gambits based on NOW software). However if Zerodha starts gold plating their charges they will slowly price themselves out of the market.
I am willing to pay a reasonable premium for "Robust Systems & Process" and "New Cost-effective Technologies:. Now let us see how Zerodha positions their value proposition over the coming months.
 
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