Zerodha....

[CASPER]

Well....I Think a Simple Solution would be for Zerodha to Have both Options ....And Traders can choose if they want to Opt for a FIXED price per month irrespective of Trades OR Floating ...Charges according to Trades .........

If the above Model is Available One can Choose as per his Taste ......What Say Zerodha ......

 

[timepass]

Here in Surat, you get a 10% discount if you pay your property tax in advance, you get some interest if you pay your light bills in advance (like FD).

Yes, it is a damned effective business practice to collect your dues in advance. If you try renting a place in Mumbai, you will know the meaning of advance rent. I dare say that only a Mumbaikar would've thought of fixed advance brokerage, just like monthly rent.

By now, we all know what is the "Nightmare on Bannergatta Street". So, it is in Zerodha's interest not to bring it up.

 

[dashr]

If you forget to square off, all f&O positions will be settled to the underlying price automatically, be it long or short...

The only issue would be if you are holding short options, in this case when the option gets settled, you might be paying extra STT...

Extra STT is charged at the time of settlement if one is holding a short? That means when it is bought to cover by exchange for settlement?

Thought there was no STT on buy side.

 

[sr114]

Actual usage is a usual industry practice. It's ok if you wish to continue following it, but let's not get negative.

Here in Surat, you get a 10% discount if you pay your property tax in advance, you get some interest if you pay your light bills in advance (like FD).

Yes, it is a damned effective business practice to collect your dues in advance. If you try renting a place in Mumbai, you will know the meaning of advance rent. I dare say that only a Mumbaikar would've thought of fixed advance brokerage, just like monthly rent.

By now, we all know what is the "Nightmare on Bannergatta Street". So, it is in Zerodha's interest not to bring it up.

Timepass,

the property tax issue u raised- would u pay property tax in advance to get a 10% rebate though u are going to acquire it. u pay it as u got the property with u and going to acquire it.

Electricity bills - paid in advance - but look at the bill and find the time for which which it is being taken.

Yes its a damned business practice to collect our dues in advance, but if i have not used the service then am i to pay in advance.

Not in Mumbai, but also in my place ( some 120 km ) from Kolkata u have to pay the premium (advance rent - some 11 months of rent actually paid before and adjusted with rent) to get a rented house. the main problem arises when i leave the rented house after say 5/6 months and ask for the refund from landlord.

so Timepass, advance collection of dues is a good business practice if the service is actually being utilized otherwise it is called sheer malpractice and asking for a refund - u may know the consequences. - some of us have that experience.

regards
sr114

 

[timepass]

Timepass,

the property tax issue u raised- would u pay property tax in advance to get a 10% rebate though u are going to acquire it. u pay it as u got the property with u and going to acquire it.

Electricity bills - paid in advance - but look at the bill and find the time for which which it is being take.

Yes its a damned business practice to collect our dues in advance, but if i have not used the service then am i to pay in advance.

Not in Mumbai, but also in my place ( some 120 km ) from Kolkata u have to pay the premium (advance rent - some 11 months of rent actually paid before and adjusted with rent) to get a rented house. the main problem arises when i leave the rented house after say 5/6 months and ask for the refund from landlord.

so Timepass, advance collection of dues is a good business practice if the service is actually being utilized otherwise it is called sheer malpractice and asking for a refund - u may know the consequences. - some of us have that experience.

regards
sr114

You know what, its a very confident businessman who can ask for payment in advance. He knows that he's got something that the customer wants, to the extent of paying in advance.

You watch movies in cinema hall ?? Do you pay up before or after ??

 

[sr114]

Timepass,
thanks for reading the whole issue. yes u pay before viewing the movie. how we do? we go to the movie hall, stand in the line to get the ticket, enter the hall and watch the movie. we never purchase a movie ticket 7 days before for a film like Ra1 or Tees Maar Khan, but we buy advance ticket for Rajanikant's movie . here comes the concept of demand supply equation and the concept of utilization.

advance payment - actually we are making a mistake. advance payment is meant for acquiring any service or product which i feel that i may not get if i not pay before hand - 1 day or 2 days or 7 days or 60 days before. the analogy with movie ticket - to enter a movie hall i have to pay before. but if the movie is of Rajanikant or of Big B then i have to get the advance booking at least 7 days before or i will not be able to see the movie. but for Rajanikant. !!!

here the analogy ends, as classical economic study corroborates this concept. this is a elementary in micro economics where the utilization concept and the the concept of payments are related. we try to acquire that stuff which is in great demand and we feel not to be lagging that stuff for us. on the other hand the stuff having not that demand is not so in the radar of the people. so the concept of demand and supply and the concept of advance commitment arises.

regards
sr114

 

[Smart_trade]

Zerodha,

Have you started crediting brokerage refunds to accounts of traders in profit in Zerodha challenge as promised ?

Smart_trade

 

[TheDreamer]

... ... ...

the dreamer,
ur logic is true but not true in every business sense. U pay in advance for a hotel room/suite fearing u may not be able to get that particular facility in peak season but in slack season if u pay u are generous to the hotel owner.

my answer to zerodha was specific to the question of 'paying money in advance' in any business...

in restaurant, u never pay before eating the food.
Gift voucher - u r gifting something to some one else- deferred cash instead of the gift.
In buying any trouser/shirts, dress material, u never pay before as u don't know what is the price before seeing it. U know it when u see the product price tag not before that. U never pay in advance when u r travelling the local train or bus but in case of long distance travel, u have to buy the ticket in advance as demand may be high at that particular time. (as we see in vacation time)

business is an evolving horizon... Your statements will be invalid when we consider the e-business... We pay in advance for booking a table in a restaurant or buying stuffs through internet... Companies like groupon give special discount for advance payment... This is a win-win situation for both the customers, the company doing the business as well as the third party who facilitate the deal...
Good business is one where both parties on opposite sides of the business feel that they have got a good deal...

so we never pay in advance - make any advance commitment, if we are going to get that product/service easily. We only pay when we feel it is in great demand and we may not get it if we don't pay in advance.

typical economics principle of supply-demand curve will change with the new understanding of stuffs happening around us... Let's not be too rigid in our understanding/following principles of economics to explain everything...

In case of zerodha, they make sense when they take the actual usage fee and not advance commitment. We may not be trading as on that particular time frame and we had paid them in advance and then we will tell them to revert the advance commitment as we dont want to part our money for which we dont get any utility. If we trade we are ready to pay what is defined.

i have already mentioned that zerodha's stance might be good for them but not the only way of doing business...
I have also suggested a solution to advance brokerage in combination with the existing plans of zerodha...



regards
sr114

not saying if it is moral/ethical or not, that is why i had mentioned, we would not go against it... ..

we, the customers of zerodha & other brokers, can only negotiate to get a better deal with the brokers... Remember the initial stance taken by zerodha to stick to rs. 20/trade has now changed to 1p/10p or rs. 20/trade (whichever is lower) only through the process of negotiation... Moreover there is nothing 'absolute' about business...

as far as legal...hmmm this is debatable...a lot of cases pending at sebi/nse because of this... A lot of broking firms in india have gotten into this because, by taking money upfront you are guaranteeing business...there are brokers charging rs 1lk upfront for a year to give you a deal, what happens if a client did just 5 trades and didn't trade anymore?? Does the broker refund this upfront fees back???

someone will be an idiot to spend 1 lakh upfront when he is not sure of his trading style... But i have seen brokers who do a lot of unethical stuffs... Remember reliancemoney...
one suggestion would be - choice of i) advance monthly subscription (say rs. 2000/month) or, ii) the existing brokerage plan (whichever is lower)...

sebi has regulations on how much maximum brokerage can be charged and in this case it sure would be exceeding this clause.... As i said, there are a lot of such cases which is pending at sebi, put up by retail clients.... So about the legality aspect, we would probably have to wait for a sebi order on the same.. But knowing how long sebi takes for its orders, it might be a long time.. ...

let sebi do their job... But i have seen people get their money back from the brokers when proper complaints were lodged to the concerned authorities... Moral of the story - lathon ka bhooth... :d

 

[sumosanammain]

Let them charge what they want, how they want. They are not forcing anyone to pay them, or do business with them.

You are free to decide if you want to continue with them or shift to another broker.

I X hotel sells a dosa for 30 rs and Y hotel sells for 120 rs, do you force hime to selll at 30 rs, by building arguments, about how much his raw material costs?

He ill tell you to stuff your ***** up your own ***** and ***** off

Just because these guys are polite, people are ******** them.

PS: The asterix are typed by me, not substituted by the moderator

 

[timepass]

Timepass,
thanks for reading the whole issue.

advance payment - actually we are making a mistake. advance payment is meant for acquiring any service or product which i feel that i may not get if i not pay before hand - 1 day or 2 days or 7 days or 60 days before. the analogy with movie ticket - to enter a movie hall i have to pay before. but if the movie is of Rajanikant or of Big B then i have to get the advance booking at least 7 days before or i will not be able to see the movie. (now a days Big B dont commend that stuff) but for Rajanikant.

here the analogy ends, as classical economic study corroborates this concept. this is a elementary in micro economics where the utilization concept and the the concept of payments are related. we try to acquire that stuff which is in great demand and we feel not to be lagging that stuff for us. on the other hand the stuff having not that demand is not so in the radar of the people. so the concept of demand and supply and the concept of advance commitment arises.

regards
sr114

1 day or 1 week in advance, you pay before you watch the movie, whether you watch it or not, and you don't get refund if you walk out half way

Let them charge what they want, how they want. They are not forcing anyone to pay them, or do business with them.

You are free to decide if you want to continue with them or shift to another broker.

I X hotel sells a dosa for 30 rs and Y hotel sells for 120 rs, do you force hime to selll at 30 rs, by building arguments, about how much his raw material costs?

He ill tell you to stuff your ***** up your own ***** and ***** off

Just because these guys are polite, people are ******** them.

PS: The asterix are typed by me, not substituted by the moderator

Sumo, all those ***** go two ways, don't they :lol: