A Bird's eye view to a Bull's eye

[tnsn2345]

Great answers TNSN, for typical trader's challange areas.
They do not sound crazy to me.. cause to break the ingrained -ive trading habit, we got to do things differently.. As an adult, we stop taking new actions but keep repeating what we have been doing always.

Some of them are giving me clues to improve my trading too. Thanks.

happy trading.

Yes, AW, to some it may appear so (to me they do not), but since we are discussing not how to improve upon the shortcomings, but how to reduce their effect or benefit from them, we have to do something unconvetional.

When we discuss our strengths, (and not the weakness as above) then we will have more scientific approach using statistical and mathematical models.

I would rather say that in trading you play a joker of a circus and a scientist at NASA. Whatever the role demands, change the attire and start playing.

Regards,

p.s...contd tomorrow...late now..

 

[enygma]

Tnsn,

I literally burst out laughing upon reading this. Not because of what you wrote but because I am used to doing this for other "trivial" decisions.

Right from childhood, have the habit of looking at a digital watch and then taking a binary "decision" based on if the last digit is odd or not. It could be for which movie to watch, what of two good things to order, blah blah ....

Never thought of applicability of it to trading
Time for a small digital clock on my desk ...

Thanks,
E.

....

More simply, you can look at your wrist watch and if the seconds hand is between 12 to 6 (hold) and if between 6 to 12 (exit).

 

[enygma]

The way I look at some of these is that it is a mind game. The philosophy being to make some small changes to enforce discipline or to take blame away from self etc. Should work for most people ...

E.

Dear TNSN,

Just a question with due respect to you. Can such things suggested by you be termed as an official part of successful trading methods / systems? Aren't these adhoc which may or may not succeed. And if they give inconsistent outcome then how can they be part of a successful trading method. I am just trying to understand this. On your request I am posting this query here else would have certainly sent a PM.

Thanks.

 

[tnsn2345]

Dear TNSN,

Just a question with due respect to you. Can such things suggested by you be termed as an official part of successful trading methods / systems? Aren't these adhoc which may or may not succeed. And if they give inconsistent outcome then how can they be part of a successful trading method. I am just trying to understand this. On your request I am posting this query here else would have certainly sent a PM.

Thanks.

The way I look at some of these is that it is a mind game. The philosophy being to make some small changes to enforce discipline or to take blame away from self etc. Should work for most people ...

E.

Dear C'bye,

You question is quite valid, for most of the traders, they try to put system or a logic to every action they take in the market. Systems are built, programming is done, codes are written for almost every action. But IMO one cannot programme everything. And these are softer elements of human psyche.

In the above examples I gave, there is no system, but as Enygma put is most appropriately that we need to take away the blame from self. And that much is good enough to rest our mind. A stable mind will most likely take correct decisions in the future. So what if the results maybe inconsistent, the mental frame is intact and ready to take on the next trade logically.

Just to give you more prespective, in cricket (we all love this game, don't we) when I was young and had a dream to play for India , I used to practise batting and the first thing which was taught was the foot work..foot work..and foot work..come to the front foot, in the line of the ball...etc, there were storkes which were all patented, and there was no shot out of the book. But look today, how the batting maestros play, Sehwag, VVS, Ganguly, all great batsman, and rarely they move their foot (sic), are they wrong or was I?? Today there are reverse sweep, paddle shot, late cut, (and yes the helicopter, uppar cut, pallu scoop, etc), all these are not the 'cricketing strokes'. But does it matter now, no, as long as it helps you and you benefit from it, it is ok.

In trading there is no one way of profiting and there is now way you can programme, code or create system for different type of market conditions and eliminate human thinking. The has been, is and always be human behaviour - rational and irrational which will run the markets and no automated systems (whosoever has built it in past and will build in future) can net profit in all cycles of markets - and that's my word.

Regards,

 

[jagankris]

Dear C'bye,

The has been, is and always be human behaviour - rational and irrational which will run the markets and no automated systems (whosoever has built it in past and will build in future) can net profit in all cycles of markets - and that's my word.

Regards,

Perfect. :clapping:.
Thanks a lot.

 

[tnsn2345]

tnsn2345 please reply to the following thread:
http://www.traderji.com/options/50253-linkons-guppybb-system-8.html#post528306

I may briefly write upon the three CS techiqnue later in this thread, I don't think it will be possible for me to really make you and others explain how it works (or rather how I make it work for me). I use it because I trade short and mid TF on the basis of 'understanding' the market 'pulse'.

Dear tnsn,
these are some of my mistakes which am making regularly,
1.switching methods.....though I backtest method aftergetting confidence then trade..also make some profit...then switch another method....it is running regularly...though am now stopped to look some threads so also switching also slowed ...but still when i see any new system/method am switching....please help to avoid this...
2.when i trade one successive method....trade get hitting sar's in 3 trades then 1 trade get in profit which i loss in 3 trades i exit ongoing trade opposit of my rule of that method.looking square off my previous losses..then that trades goes without me....then wait for entry that also get hit sar's....unable to handle these problems....pls help
3.please give one model journel... which points we keep in our journal for refering our trades..emotions vise and trade wise...

Vjay, could you pls restate point 2, couldn't understand it. I am parking point 3, at the moment and will address when we discuss the topic 'Report card' later.

Regards,

 

[tnsn2345]

...contd..

5) Past experience of loss or fear of losing results in not taking further trades

When I was young and in school, we all had some crush on some or the other girl and during those days, talking to girls in the school was not very common (atleast in my school). It used to to take days, weeks or months to talk to some girl, though every day, the feeling was I will do it today, and some of us could never ever talk to the girl. The situation is quite similar here too, there is a fear of unknown, we are carried away by all that could go wrong with us (either in the girls case or the next trade)...ok since I am not going to offer remedy to this and we are discussing how we can reduce the effect of this flaw or benefit from it, let me guide you to the Netural trade post I wrote early in this thread.

The only way out of this situation is to enter a trade (which we are otherwise prohibited - fear of the unknow, by our mind). So enter a Neutral trade. So if you are an Options (directional) trader, by both Call and Put together and if you are a stock trader enter two stocks (if they are negatively correlated, better still - incidently this is the most common hedge funds strategies to enter Netural with two stock negatively correlated). As soon as your direction is decided, you can let go your non profitable position and hold the profitable position.

See what we are trying to do here is 'Entering a trade' and this is all what we want when we are facing this short coming, since we do not enter, we lose opportunity to profit and more the heartburn. Hence even if we are entering Neutral, the fact is we have atleast 'entered' the market and that is what we wanted.

...

 

[tnsn2345]

Tnsn,

I literally burst out laughing upon reading this. Not because of what you wrote but because I am used to doing this for other "trivial" decisions.

Right from childhood, have the habit of looking at a digital watch and then taking a binary "decision" based on if the last digit is odd or not. It could be for which movie to watch, what of two good things to order, blah blah ....

Never thought of applicability of it to trading
Time for a small digital clock on my desk ...

Thanks,
E.

Absoutely E'ma, life mein agar har chiz hame hi soch samaj ke karni hai to phir bhagwanji kya karenge? Isliye apana 'kuch kam' bhagwanji ko upward delegate karna chaiye.

Incidently, while watching cartoon channel on TV with my kid, I saw an ad of a buggle gum - a decision making bubble gum, which radomly gives either red or green colour when chewed. So depending on the colour you say Yes or No to the task at hand...ha...ha..

 

[AW10]

Dear TNSN,

Just a question with due respect to you. Can such things suggested by you be termed as an official part of successful trading methods / systems? Aren't these adhoc which may or may not succeed. And if they give inconsistent outcome then how can they be part of a successful trading method. I am just trying to understand this. On your request I am posting this query here else would have certainly sent a PM.

Thanks.

Cubye1979, probably u had response from TNSN on this ..but I am sharing my views here.

There is nothing officially part in trading. Trading is about finding the approach/rules/system that suits trader's personality. Something that suits one person, may or maynot suit other person. Due to our learning from regular life, we think that there is some perfect way of trading that suits all trader.. but that is not the case.

All trading approaches/systems give inconsistent results. They all have lossess as well as profits.. Success of systems comes from "rule of expectancy" not from being 100% correct. As long as
Average win size*%of winners - average loss size * % of losing trader > 0.
you have a winning system in hand. Than it is matter of OUR discipline and soft skills to execute it correctly. If we can control the controllable ie. the execution part, than both uncortollable outcome given by market (win or loss) are ok.. cause over a period of time, we know that system has +ive expectancy and we will win over number of trades.. We don't have to win each and every trade.

Ingrained learning in our subconsious mind about being right, perfectionsim, staying away from being wrong etc are major hurdles in our development as trader. Till the time we can't overwrite these and be THICK to any outcome of an individual trade, upward journey is difficult.

Hope this gives you slightly different perspective.
Happy Trading

 

[Raghavacc]

in trading there is no one way of profiting and there is now way you can programme, code or create system for different type of market conditions and eliminate human thinking. The has been, is and always be human behaviour - rational and irrational which will run the markets and no automated systems (whosoever has built it in past and will build in future) can net profit in all cycles of markets - and that's my word.

Regards,

eternal truth...................