Day Traders Lounge.

[DSM]

After Kailash Satatyarthi, RBI Governor Raghuram Rajan lends his voice on growing intolerance :

 

[bpr]

BPR,

The framers of the constitution of the country did their work with foresight and wisdom. The upper and lower houses of parliment exist in most democracies. It is a system of check and balance.... this ensures that the govt. in power does not excercise brute force and get resolutions passed just because they are elected to power. The system of federalism holds the country together. Just imagine, if BJP or any party in power made :

* Hindi the national language and compulsory mode of communication?
* Enforced regional language or hindi as medium of instructions in school?
* Banned sale of liquor, wines and beer (as it is against our culture/tradition)
* Nationalised all banks and private institutions?
* Restricted speech criticising the government?
* Banned private owenership of newspapers and TV channels?

A lot of stuff can happen when we place absolute power in the hands of politicians. Already the MLA's, MP's and even those elected to the municipal council abuse and misuse power and behave like soverign emperors. Were more power to be given to the elected without checks and balances - we would become like Russia, who transformed from Communism to a bad example of democracy under Putin.....

if they do that they will thrown out of power next election after all it is democracy.
The framers of the constitution did a copy paste of british system which is a logical thing to do at that time but it is not read only it can /will be changed as needed. The governments after that are dumb enough to keep it updated.
What will be ur reaction if I force u to use windows 95 in todays date.
How can a system that is created 1950s will continue to work till eternity without adaptation/changes.

Just because the system works for other countries does not mean it will work for India. The system is just running and not producing the desired output so they next step is to start fixing the system ....

...

 

[Vertigo_1985]

Vertigo,

You seem to forget that when BJP was in opposition, they stalled every move of the UPA - Even GST. So now to complain that the opposition is obstructing conveniently ignores the days when BJP put politics as its priority before the interest of the country....

Re. awards, there are two sides to it..... Is there not a growing intolerance in the country? A man is killed because of what he supposedly ate (and that too was rumours) We can be casual about it, only because it did not happen to us.... And what did the BJP spokesperson do at that time? Sangeet Som, Sakshi Maharaj and Sadhvi Prachi - stoked the fire by pouring oil over it.. Other than a repramind (in private) there was a silence on the part of the BJP.

And to the oft quoted message that the awardees did not return the award when there was previous communal tension - I say, neither did anybody return the award during Godhra riots also..... It is only now that the fringe elements are encouraged and becoming vocal about what people should eat at their homes.... recently there was an uproar in Mumbai when meat (including chicken) sale was restricted..... So where will all this take us 10-20 years down the road?

A country as diverse as ours, needs tolerance and acceptance to others. But instead, it is food habits, dress, speech, thought that is sought to be made uniform..... And when this happens, development and progress becomes the second priority, while the govt focuses its attention on the negative press and managing its image.

Am wondering that it is just a year into government - How did the NDA mess up so much?

Well.. i dont care who did what in the past, its only results that matter, so its current govn job to get it done without any excuses... and as i dont expect opposition to support the govn so the only option they hv is to either break the opposition or win bihar, bengal and up.


Growing intolerance - of course there are 2 sides to it which "secular" ppl dont seem to able to see or dont want to see.
If the guy was from majority community and murderers from minority would this have made news ??
If both were from minority community would this have made news ?
If he was from upper hindu and murderers from lower hindu caste this would have made news ??

Its selective secularism that is making ppl more and more intolerant. The case that you mentioned, there were 2 ways to handle it -
1. Being proactive - Have an eye on local fringe elements, what they do in social networks, do work to maintain communal harmony. If a murder has happened then get the killers and let the law take its course irrespective of the caste, religion, rich or poor.
2. How it happened ?? -- politicians, media milked it, one family was given 4 flats, lakhs of money and other family whose member died.. well most wont even know about it.. so thats how selective secularism is working. Is that gng to create more harmony or hatred ??

Take one more recent case of haryana... now evidence are pointing that the parents only burned the children but what the media did ? and what the so called secularist did ? instead of law take its own course they painted it as one community against other and now it will be really one against other because of the things happened. But will the so called secularist of politics, media be held responsible ??

Regarding Bjp, its high time that ppl like sakshi maharaj, adityanath are shown the door.

 

[vijayanscbe]

Indian system is so funny ..

I say get rid of the rajya sabha altogether. How come people don't see the solution. the country will propel to future by 10 years.
Oh wait constitutional amendment we need 3/4th in Lok sabha and rajya sabha has to approve its own demise which will never happen.

BPR,

The framers of the constitution of the country did their work with foresight and wisdom. The upper and lower houses of parliment exist in most democracies. It is a system of check and balance.... this ensures that the govt. in power does not excercise brute force and get resolutions passed just because they are elected to power. The system of federalism holds the country together. Just imagine, if BJP or any party in power made :

* Hindi the national language and compulsory mode of communication?
* Enforced regional language or hindi as medium of instructions in school?
* Banned sale of liquor, wines and beer (as it is against our culture/tradition)
* Nationalised all banks and private institutions?
* Restricted speech criticising the government?
* Banned private owenership of newspapers and TV channels?

A lot of stuff can happen when we place absolute power in the hands of politicians. Already the MLA's, MP's and even those elected to the municipal council abuse and misuse power and behave like soverign emperors. Were more power to be given to the elected without checks and balances - we would become like Russia, who transformed from Communism to a bad example of democracy under Putin.....

if they do that they will thrown out of power next election after all it is democracy.
...

Why people throw away last xyz.
coz they are corrupted.
How do people know they are corrupted?
By medias.
How do the medias know the scam.
By CAG.
How do the CAG know the scam.
They get the details of the tender agreement.

So if xyz had more power, they dont give the details to CAG, so media may force to give positve news, so the people dont know about the corruption , so they may happily reelect the xyz. This is how democracy works.

If you get rid of Rajya Sabha, Then the state has more MPs will force the centre to give more fund/benefits/projects/priority to their state . The state which has less or no MP has will struggle to get benefits/priority.

Every thing is double edged have to be careful.

Democracy is not just electing the good person and forgot for next five years.
You have question and doubt every thing ,so only he will do his duty.
Questioning is the power of democracy.
If you question a KING , He will hang you. :lol:

There is no set and forget in Trading nor in democracy.

 

[Rish]

I think RSS is creating problem, there's not a single bjp MLA in our state, but rss provoking other non hindu community to create problems and let hindus to unite against other communities.. they're forgetting the facts that our small state is the largest population of NRIs in gulf countries. And our economy largely depend on gulf money

RSS may not be the sole agent of Hindus.....

Hindu religion is established and protected by spiritual Guru's like Adi Shankarar and Ramanujar........i can follow them and accept them as my Guru.....Because, they have teached Humanity with Religion, But, not by RSS...

Let us not divide Humanity by Religion or Caste...let us be united...never give importance to fringe elements.

 

[DSM]

BPR,

Re. If they do that they will thrown out of power next election after all it is democracy. My question : Is this what is not happening anyway? Mostly govts. have 1-2 or 3 terms max. And then they are thrown out.

Democracy, is after all imperfect system. It is a collective consensus of the people. In India, many vote basis sentiments, caste factors etc. So in the end, people deserve what they get, or the govt. they elect.

And we have to remember, an imperfect democracy, is still preferable to absolute power as history has repeatedly proven. It is not the lack majority, but the lack of democratic spirit that ails the country. Watching a debate in the House of commons, or the US senate, will give an idea of how our system functions as compared to the US and UK who have a similar system. So instead of blaming the system the govt. needs to look at its own way of functioning and avoid confrontation and take to co-operation and build consensus to move the country ahead. Presently it is just the opposite, with the ruling party as well as the opposition wanting to score petty points over each other.... But hey, here ego rules, and who cares for things for other than agenda?

if they do that they will thrown out of power next election after all it is democracy.

The framers of the constitution did a copy paste of british system which is a logical thing to do at that time but it is not read only it can /will be changed as needed. The governments after that are dumb enough to keep it updated.
What will be ur reaction if I force u to use windows 95 in todays date.
How can a system that is created 1950s will continue to work till eternity without adaptation/changes.

Just because the system works for other countries does not mean it will work for India. The system is just running and not producing the desired output so they next step is to start fixing the system ....

...

 

[DSM]

Vertigo,

We all believe what we want to believe. So you believe the story that the parents burned the children?. And what else would you believe?

The issue is that when a tragedy happens to somebody else, we can rationalize. What if you or your family member was beaten because of what a mob of people thought you ate? Would you react the same way? Rationalizing or intellectualizing?

Let us forget about the 'secular' press, media etc. President Pranab Mukherjee has President has spoken again today against growing intolerance in the country. And for good reason. Many people in the country are worried. The problem is that if they speak, they are termed 'anti-national' without even giving a thought to reflecting upon the issues raised....

Well.. i dont care who did what in the past, its only results that matter, so its current govn job to get it done without any excuses... and as i dont expect opposition to support the govn so the only option they hv is to either break the opposition or win bihar, bengal and up.


Growing intolerance - of course there are 2 sides to it which "secular" ppl dont seem to able to see or dont want to see.
If the guy was from majority community and murderers from minority would this have made news ??
If both were from minority community would this have made news ?
If he was from upper hindu and murderers from lower hindu caste this would have made news ??

Its selective secularism that is making ppl more and more intolerant. The case that you mentioned, there were 2 ways to handle it -

1. Being proactive - Have an eye on local fringe elements, what they do in social networks, do work to maintain communal harmony. If a murder has happened then get the killers and let the law take its course irrespective of the caste, religion, rich or poor.
2. How it happened ?? -- politicians, media milked it, one family was given 4 flats, lakhs of money and other family whose member died.. well most wont even know about it.. so thats how selective secularism is working. Is that gng to create more harmony or hatred ??

Take one more recent case of haryana... now evidence are pointing that the parents only burned the children but what the media did ? and what the so called secularist did ? instead of law take its own course they painted it as one community against other and now it will be really one against other because of the things happened. But will the so called secularist of politics, media be held responsible ??

Regarding Bjp, its high time that ppl like sakshi maharaj, adityanath are shown the door.

 

[DSM]

Vijayan,

Agree... However, most people tend to think that having elected a government of their choice, all will be well. There is a saying, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is the nature of man. And here we have talk of trusting the 'elected representatives' to power without checks and balances.

I often go down a long stretch of road, which was dug out and newly made just about 8 months back. Last week, while there, I noticed, it was dug up, and big stretches of it was being repaired. No doubt - the new road was made at a great cost - of shoddy material, low standards, so that the contractors, bureacrats, politicians and the businessmen made money. Now, in less than a year, money is being spent for its repairs. Am sure, 'repairs' will happen every 6 months, and the money collected via taxes will end up in pockets and coffers as black money.

A simple change in the tender document - making the contractor liable for repairs and maintenance for the road for the next 5 years would do the job, and the thousands of crores of tax payers money would be saved. But the system is corrupt. The people we elect are not worthy of trust.... where does all this end up eventually? Just where we started..... 5-10 years down the line, we will be more wiser by the experience. At a great cost to ourselves....

Why people throw away last xyz.
coz they are corrupted.
How do people know they are corrupted?
By medias.
How do the medias know the scam.
By CAG.
How do the CAG know the scam.
They get the details of the tender agreement.

So if xyz had more power, they dont give the details to CAG, so media may force to give positve news, so the people dont know about the corruption , so they may happily reelect the xyz. This is how democracy works.

If you get rid of Rajya Sabha, Then the state has more MPs will force the centre to give more fund/benefits/projects/priority to their state . The state which has less or no MP has will struggle to get benefits/priority.

Every thing is double edged have to be careful.

Democracy is not just electing the good person and forgot for next five years.
You have question and doubt every thing ,so only he will do his duty.
Questioning is the power of democracy.
If you question a KING , He will hang you. :lol:

There is no set and forget in Trading nor in democracy.

 

[Vertigo_1985]

Vertigo,

We all believe what we want to believe. So you believe the story that the parents burned the children?. And what else would you believe?

The issue is that when a tragedy happens to somebody else, we can rationalize. What if you or your family member was beaten because of what a mob of people thought you ate? Would you react the same way? Rationalizing or intellectualizing?

Let us forget about the 'secular' press, media etc. President Pranab Mukherjee has President has spoken again today against growing intolerance in the country. And for good reason. Many people in the country are worried. The problem is that if they speak, they are termed 'anti-national' without even giving a thought to reflecting upon the issues raised....

Look at the facts of the crime scene and you decide for urself what the truth is, i know it doesnt feel good thinking good that the parents may have actually done that in their in fighting but sometimes truth is bitter, dont let emotions cloud our judgement. You may even want to remember talwars or the up incident where girls were hanged in honor killing and it was made a communal incident.

I am not in anyway saying that their pain is less or rationalizing it, hang the murderers and set an example but dont make it one religion versus another which is exactly what the so called seculars are doing.
If we are equal citizens then lets have equal law for everyone. I will ask you to do a frank analysis of the incident and whether the handling has resulted in harmony or disharmony ? How about if the local police had nabbed the murderers and we had a fast trial to set an example? again i would say hang them and set and example. But this wont happen as politicians know how to keep the fire burning for their own benefit and ppl wont understand.

Lets look more into the incident.. they may have personal hatred against them but one more important thing to note is that they were DRUNK .. but did anyone raised any issue on drinking ?? how about the deaths after drink n drive or murders after drinking ? I dont find any of my educated frnds to take measure on controlling alcohal consumption ... why is that ?

How about our educated ppl opposing porn ban or supporting prostitution legalization? when small girls are kidnapped, raped or they are filmed then we will see the same ppl shedding crocodile tears but they are the ones fueling the demand.

Thing is ppl want freedom but they dont want to face the consequences.

 

[DSM]

Vertigo,

My thinking is clear. Before passing judgement, I put myself in the place of the victim..... and then proceed to think from there. Recently there was a debate about migrants influx into Germany. Rights, wrong, and logic aside, I put myself in the place of the father of Alain Kurdi, who fled fighting from his place in Syria, then had to flee another place in Syria, then to Turkey. He was looking for a safe/better life for his family. What would I do in his place? We need to stop rationalizing, and if we were to experience the same as the victim of Dadri, or the courage of the person speaking against the might or brute force of majority, our thinking would be different. A person no less than the President of India is raising his concern. Raghuram Rajan, has spoken. So will he be branded a 'sickular'? Does he not as an Indian citizen has the right to speak on matter that impacts the country? Subramaniam Swami has already called for his dismissal. So what next? Speak as per your conscience, and be branded an 'Anti-national'? or a 'Paki' or termed 'sickular' or whatever? Or do we want to be a country who has only one right thought or way of thinking, and dissidence wrong? I repeat, it happens in Saudi, N.Korea, Syria etc. And not in a democracy.... The govt. of the day will be
wise to heed warning of calls from people who have courage to speak out, instead of being arrogant and castigating them....

Look at the facts of the crime scene and you decide for urself what the truth is, i know it doesnt feel good thinking good that the parents may have actually done that in their in fighting but sometimes truth is bitter, dont let emotions cloud our judgement. You may even want to remember talwars or the up incident where girls were hanged in honor killing and it was made a communal incident.

I am not in anyway saying that their pain is less or rationalizing it, hang the murderers and set an example but dont make it one religion versus another which is exactly what the so called seculars are doing.
If we are equal citizens then lets have equal law for everyone. I will ask you to do a frank analysis of the incident and whether the handling has resulted in harmony or disharmony ? How about if the local police had nabbed the murderers and we had a fast trial to set an example? again i would say hang them and set and example. But this wont happen as politicians know how to keep the fire burning for their own benefit and ppl wont understand.

Lets look more into the incident.. they may have personal hatred against them but one more important thing to note is that they were DRUNK .. but did anyone raised any issue on drinking ?? how about the deaths after drink n drive or murders after drinking ? I dont find any of my educated frnds to take measure on controlling alcohal consumption ... why is that ?

How about our educated ppl opposing porn ban or supporting prostitution legalization? when small girls are kidnapped, raped or they are filmed then we will see the same ppl shedding crocodile tears but they are the ones fueling the demand.

Thing is ppl want freedom but they dont want to face the consequences.