Going With The 60min Flow!!!

[Saint]

Thanks NC!!! There is no clear cut conclusion, its all about a traders risk profile!!!
Both "A" and "B" are excellent!!! Frankly there is no money management in "B"!!!
I am trying to migrate to to "A" but still hesitating just as Rakesh, becoz I am still nor comfortable adding without the SL moving in our direction. Need to analyse past data to reach a conclusion!!! Till now my view is tilted towards "B" only!!!
More over as I an still only trading 2 lots , it will be a couple of months more when i graduate to 4 lots and by then i shall be prepared with my analysis of historical data to decide whether to remain B or change to A!!!!

RK,

You are at present trading 2 lots........and entering at the same time as an Initial Position and holding tight.No harm........but is your risk at the time you took that initial posn at the same % that you wish it to be.For example,you have decided that it's going to be 1%.......are the 2 lots,if stopped,only going to give you a loss of 1% of that capital.

If the answer to that question is YES......you are Trader A but not yet ready to play the ADDS game,or Trader A whose capital is not sufficient to play the ADDS game.........whatever the reason,you are not Trader B,my friend.

You are Trader B if the stops are hit on your 2 lots,a substantial amount is wiped out from your Capital......and if money management is not a concern.

If you are Trader B.......looking fwd to you joining the ranks of Trader A ,...and fast....as fast as possible.You are too good a mind to be Trader B........

Saint

 

[Saint]

hi Satya,

Had the same doubt about using of 30 min pivots. Saint had answered some examples i had asked sometime before.

these two answers from Saint could clear some of ur doubts.

http://www.traderji.com/equities/21903-going-60min-flow-280.html#post211487

http://www.traderji.com/equities/21903-going-60min-flow-280.html#post211483.

yesterday 30min pivot was used, though was very small, mainly because on 12/9 there was a good down move and yesterday was a BIG gap down and then the down move.30 min pivot gave us the best hing point to turn around our direction of flow.

regards.

Thanx Aditya!

Saint

 

[Saint]

well, czar is the official ambassador here on behalf of our "Asish Da's" team...

Nah,Czar is one of us..........we have sent him from the "Flow Team" to keep an eye on you guys.

Saint

 

[Saint]

Hi saint sir,
Though I don't trade with 60 min flow ( bcuz i hv to juggle btween commodity n equity) , i make it a point to hit ur thread at the end of day,to see happy faces,going through the day of utter cacophony it seems so peaceful.
The reason i am writing here is,unknowingly you proving to cynics( Thogh its not a prime object of the thread), who falsely believe successful trader wont open his cards and he trade in his close office far away from broker instead of going public.Look guys see your self,seeing is believing,one utterly successful trader helping and trading successfully.
And your thread convinced my one of my trader friend, n he today register in traderji.
Like a true saint you doinig lot of good work at the same time with humbly rejecting the credits
Alex

Thank you for your kind words,Alex.....

Saint

 

[KomaL2099]

Completely agree
B risks all his capital at a single go and that put him on a high risk position; while A is utilising his Capital gradually with the flow.
NO doubt that B will gain maximum profit if the flow is in the trade direction and incur more loss if the converse happens.
But as the wise man(SAINT) said keep the profit-loss aside and lets just follow the system keeping our Greed(profit) and Fear(Losses) on the backburner.

Hi, I think a bit differently :

These were the trades done in Sep till yesterday as Posted by Saint :
COMPLETED TRADES IN NF IN SEPTEMBER

TRADE 1(LONG):
INITIAL POSITION:4354
ADD 1:4381
ADD 2:4383

EXIT=4425.............+156 pts.

TRADE 2 (SHORT):
INITIAL POSN: 4425
ADD1 :4324
ADD2 : 4280
ADD3 : 4246

AVG:4319
EXIT: 4062...........257 x 4 =+1028pts

If two persons are risking the same capital :
One person say A adds to his initial position gradually till he has 4 positions open and the other say B enters 4 positions at a go!!!
Its all about handling your risk.

"A" is safe and secure if the position does not move in his direction and if SL is hit he looses on a single position only.
"B" is adventurous and takes the maximum risk at the first signal and enters into 4 positions at a go... if the SL is hit he looses 4 times what "A" looses!! In case of a Gap "A" has an advantage too of adding at lower (in case of Long) levels too!!!

It is unusual that an ADD would increase the risk, it happens only when there is a Gap opening against our trade pushing back our SL or if at any time our SL is not hit due to room given and we have to revise the SL adversely, in no other case shall the risk increase!!!

The "B" risks more and he gains more too :
In the first trade of Long at 4354 Reverse at 4425 = 71X4= 284
In the 2nd trade of Short at 4425 Reverse at 4062 = 363X4=1452

But consider a hypothetical scenario :

Yesterday we went long and today mkt opened gap down, had the SL been triggered, "B" wud loose four times of what "A" would loose!!! "A" had another advantage of being able to add at lower levels, now at the end of trade we shall know who fared better but one thing is clear "A" had lesser stress watching the Intl market yesterday night and Asian Market today morning compared to what "B" might have gone through!!!!

Just my view!!!!

 

[rkkarnani]

Completely agree
B risks all his capital at a single go and that put him on a high risk position; while A is utilising his Capital gradually with the flow.
NO doubt that B will gain maximum profit if the flow is in the trade direction and incur more loss if the converse happens.
But as the wise man(SAINT) said keep the profit-loss aside and lets just follow the system keeping our Greed(profit) and Fear(Losses) on the backburner.

The wise man Saint has already clarified, please do take a look , if not already taken!!

 

[niftychance]

Hello Saint Sir,

Thanks for the detailed explanations, it clears the air about money management and adds for the 60 mins flow.

It does simplify things to consider a band of 1-2% for risk.

Start with 1%, while adding intraday keep it below 2%,

Around close, if neccessary reduce the position size so as risk is not more than your comfort level (1-1.5%).

Thanks

 

[KomaL2099]

Both A and B has some pros and cons.
B makes huge gains if flow is in the favour of trade. But the biggest risk of being B is that at any point two consecutive bad trades can hit him hard.
The problem being A is that after a while if he looks at the profit B has made he might want to make the same killing as B did.
It is difficult to say which one is better, So better choose what is best for you.
Saint has shown the path as GORDON GEEKO said "I opened the doors for you! Showed you how the system works!" ... Choose your own way !!!!!

Hello rkkarnani Sir

Thanks for the detailed analysis and pros n cons for both money management methods...

But whats the conclusion which is better A or B?

As far as I know you have been following B, but are keen to use A ...


Saint sir is following the A method, Komal says A is much better

Rakesh is not sure about how to use A...

I have backtested both A and B, both are n times better than what I used to do

Thanks

 

[AmritaBasu]

Today mkt will open gap up, when will u guys book profit?At what level?

 

[Smart_trade]

Today mkt will open gap up, when will u guys book profit?At what level?

We dont plan to book profits till the mkt tells us to do so !!!

Trade Well !!!

Smart_trade